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Kermit8 Hevon 17 Jun 14 9.41pm | |
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Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 8.42pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 5.44pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.03pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am
I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years. Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty. pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you. Top 10 terrorists groups worldwide in 2012. 6 were Islamic fundamentalist types 4 were not (FARC,PKK, Indian Maoist, FLNC)
Do you remember your rant about UKIP where you said the problem would be in ten years time when millions of racists will be unleashed into the political hierarchy as a result of voting for Nigel Farage? Do you not apply the same logic to Muslim extremism or does that not count for some reason? How can I apply logic to that illogical paradigm? When we have a muslim party threatening the political status quo then your post/question will have some weight. As it stands it is just inconsequential fluff. UKIP, as I said, imo will have no option than to lurch further to the right the more power it gets. That, obviously, will attract BNP types. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 5.53pm)
Or does 'Kermits Law' only work for political groupings he opposes?
I've said that enough times now for you not to get it wrong yet still you do. Jet lag?
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matt_himself Matataland 17 Jun 14 10.12pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 9.41pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 8.42pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 5.44pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.03pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am
I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years. Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty. pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you. Top 10 terrorists groups worldwide in 2012. 6 were Islamic fundamentalist types 4 were not (FARC,PKK, Indian Maoist, FLNC)
Do you remember your rant about UKIP where you said the problem would be in ten years time when millions of racists will be unleashed into the political hierarchy as a result of voting for Nigel Farage? Do you not apply the same logic to Muslim extremism or does that not count for some reason? How can I apply logic to that illogical paradigm? When we have a muslim party threatening the political status quo then your post/question will have some weight. As it stands it is just inconsequential fluff. UKIP, as I said, imo will have no option than to lurch further to the right the more power it gets. That, obviously, will attract BNP types. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 5.53pm)
Or does 'Kermits Law' only work for political groupings he opposes?
I've said that enough times now for you not to get it wrong yet still you do. Jet lag? I note that you do not respond about Muslim extremists but continue with your deluded UKIP bashing. Interesting. Is this deliberate or the result of exhaustion induced by a heavy day of house husbanding?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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legaleagle 17 Jun 14 10.38pm | |
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Its too serious an issue to degenerate into the usual school playground (on all sides)right-left petty slagging. Islam is a "legitimate" religion, as "legitimate" (or not) as Christianity or Judaism. That doesn't mean that I don't personally find some aspects of sharia law worrying (especially the unequal treatment for non Muslims). I also find the idea of anyone wanting to go around mindlessly killing people for no good reason, but purportedly for the greater glory of a religion, seriously bad news (whether it be Muslims ,Catholics against Orthodox Christians and Jews in Croatia 1941-45, Orthadox Christians against Muslims in Bosnia a decade ago, or good old Richard the Lionheart and his crusader buddies centuries ago). Manipulative people abusing religion to spread hatred (as per some parts of Muslim community today)and mischannel young people's sense of alientation at the feeling of lacking any stake in the system is as old as the hills and not confined to followers of any one religion. Just like extreme politicians in Europe sometimes try to channel such feelings into general anti-immigrant sentiment in some other sectors of the community.. So, maybe just maybe, some young Muslims do feel outraged at what they see as hypocritical western foreign policy to some Muslim countries, and maybe just maybe, the schools scare in Birmingham was hyped up for political reasons based on a forged "conspiracy" letter re a school that, for whatever reason, OFSTED gave a decent rating to when they first went in this year. So, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater by demonising every Muslim as a potential bomber sympathiser(or "Nazi". Doesn't mean there aren't some issues to worry about, but they are too serious to let balance and proportionality fly out of the window.
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Kermit8 Hevon 17 Jun 14 11.05pm | |
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Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 10.12pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 9.41pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 8.42pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 5.44pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.03pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am
I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years. Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty. pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you. Top 10 terrorists groups worldwide in 2012. 6 were Islamic fundamentalist types 4 were not (FARC,PKK, Indian Maoist, FLNC)
Do you remember your rant about UKIP where you said the problem would be in ten years time when millions of racists will be unleashed into the political hierarchy as a result of voting for Nigel Farage? Do you not apply the same logic to Muslim extremism or does that not count for some reason? How can I apply logic to that illogical paradigm? When we have a muslim party threatening the political status quo then your post/question will have some weight. As it stands it is just inconsequential fluff. UKIP, as I said, imo will have no option than to lurch further to the right the more power it gets. That, obviously, will attract BNP types. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 5.53pm)
Or does 'Kermits Law' only work for political groupings he opposes?
I've said that enough times now for you not to get it wrong yet still you do. Jet lag? I note that you do not respond about Muslim extremists but continue with your deluded UKIP bashing. Interesting. Is this deliberate or the result of exhaustion induced by a heavy day of house husbanding?
Oh yeah, is this new obsession about house husbands a replacement for the fishing about my time as a teacher? Shucks - I really must set up a Twitter account so you can follow me 24/7. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 11.12pm)
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Stirlingsays 17 Jun 14 11.17pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 17 Jun 2014 10.38pm
So, maybe just maybe, some young Muslims do feel outraged at what they see as hypocritical western foreign policy to some Muslim countries, and maybe just maybe, the schools scare in Birmingham was hyped up for political reasons based on a forged "conspiracy" letter re a school that, for whatever reason, OFSTED gave a decent rating to when they first went in this year.
Every country acts in its own perceived best interests. There is no hypocrisy, there is only self interest. What exactly are you saying about Ofsted's report into those Birmingham schools. For what possible political gain could this situation be to a government that is being blamed for the situation itself? Where is the evidence that this letter is forged? Are the two hundred complaints from teachers and parents also forged?....Or are they also hyped up?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 14 11.31pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Jun 2014 11.17pm
Quote legaleagle at 17 Jun 2014 10.38pm
So, maybe just maybe, some young Muslims do feel outraged at what they see as hypocritical western foreign policy to some Muslim countries, and maybe just maybe, the schools scare in Birmingham was hyped up for political reasons based on a forged "conspiracy" letter re a school that, for whatever reason, OFSTED gave a decent rating to when they first went in this year.
Every country acts in its own perceived best interests. There is no hypocrisy, there is only self interest. What exactly are you saying about Ofsted's report into those Birmingham schools. For what possible political gain could this situation be to a government that is being blamed for the situation itself? Where is the evidence that this letter is forged? Are the two hundred complaints from teachers and parents also forged?....Or are they also hyped up?
What the trojan horse affair did highlight (to be fair I don't know the whole story and have heard many conflicting reports) is that a lot of the problems were down to the fact that the schools are out of L.A control and therefore under the remit of the DFE (what happened to the tories pledge of a degree of localism during the election run up. I know this is the grauniad, but Sir Tim Brighouse's assessment of the affair and the implication is by far the most balanced I've read on the subject so far. Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 11.34pm)
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legaleagle 18 Jun 14 12.09am | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Jun 2014 11.17pm
Quote legaleagle at 17 Jun 2014 10.38pm
So, maybe just maybe, some young Muslims do feel outraged at what they see as hypocritical western foreign policy to some Muslim countries, and maybe just maybe, the schools scare in Birmingham was hyped up for political reasons based on a forged "conspiracy" letter re a school that, for whatever reason, OFSTED gave a decent rating to when they first went in this year.
Every country acts in its own perceived best interests. There is no hypocrisy, there is only self interest. What exactly are you saying about Ofsted's report into those Birmingham schools. For what possible political gain could this situation be to a government that is being blamed for the situation itself? Where is the evidence that this letter is forged? Are the two hundred complaints from teachers and parents also forged?....Or are they also hyped up? To be British is to have freedom of expression. Are Sikhs a problem for you because they are "non western" Brits,ie by not wearing crash helmets? Since when is it unBritish for you (or a British Muslim) to have a critical view of British foreign policy? I cannot agree with you there is no hypocrisy ever in a country's foreign policy just because it is self-interested. Our own history is littered with such hypocrisies (and, yes, self interest)..we have supported (and armed) dictators when it suited us and at other times tried to oust the same dictators...Saddam anyone? The Emperor of Japan (pre 1945). On the question of the letter, I do not know, any more than you do. But, I correct myself. I should have said "anonymous and allegedly forged". Is the opinion of the (non muslim) deputy head teacher of one of the schools who described it as a hatchet job any less valid? I wasn't coming down on any side. Rather, seeking to understand and be critical of knee jerkism on all sides. Those who rule out any possibility of a calculated hatchet job (albeit one that backfired spectacularly) are as blinkered as those who say the opposite. Its called having an open mind, another British "western" value, no?
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legaleagle 18 Jun 14 12.19am | |
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Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 11.31pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Jun 2014 11.17pm
Quote legaleagle at 17 Jun 2014 10.38pm
So, maybe just maybe, some young Muslims do feel outraged at what they see as hypocritical western foreign policy to some Muslim countries, and maybe just maybe, the schools scare in Birmingham was hyped up for political reasons based on a forged "conspiracy" letter re a school that, for whatever reason, OFSTED gave a decent rating to when they first went in this year.
Every country acts in its own perceived best interests. There is no hypocrisy, there is only self interest. What exactly are you saying about Ofsted's report into those Birmingham schools. For what possible political gain could this situation be to a government that is being blamed for the situation itself? Where is the evidence that this letter is forged? Are the two hundred complaints from teachers and parents also forged?....Or are they also hyped up?
What the trojan horse affair did highlight (to be fair I don't know the whole story and have heard many conflicting reports) is that a lot of the problems were down to the fact that the schools are out of L.A control and therefore under the remit of the DFE (what happened to the tories pledge of a degree of localism during the election run up. I know this is the grauniad, but Sir Tim Brighouse's assessment of the affair and the implication is by far the most balanced I've read on the subject so far. Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 11.34pm) Fair point, particularly re the perils of schools having been "liberated" from local authority controls in recent years..and the article by the school's (non muslim)deputy head in the Guardian last week to the effect the second OFSTED visit was a hatchet job, was interesting.His view being first hand and no less valid than anyone else's My son went to St Olav's in Orpington, a state C of E school. Generally, a great education. But, there was a fair amount of shoving the virtues of one religion, Christianity, down the throats of the pupils, including the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc ones. Its not a complete analogy with the Birmingham allegations by any means, but its an interesting thought: ban all religious state schools?
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Stirlingsays 18 Jun 14 12.35am | |
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Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 11.31pm
It does seem strange that OFSTED went into one of the schools, passed it, then went in the next week and put the school into special measures. What the trojan horse affair did highlight (to be fair I don't know the whole story and have heard many conflicting reports) is that a lot of the problems were down to the fact that the schools are out of L.A control and therefore under the remit of the DFE (what happened to the tories pledge of a degree of localism during the election run up. I know this is the grauniad, but Sir Tim Brighouse's assessment of the affair and the implication is by far the most balanced I've read on the subject so far. Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 11.34pm)
These schools didn't wish to be officially faith schools because they knew that the regime they created would never have been possible.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 18 Jun 14 12.47am | |
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Quote legaleagle at 18 Jun 2014 12.09am
To be British is to have freedom of expression. Are Sikhs a problem for you because they are "non western" Brits,ie by not wearing crash helmets? Since when is it unBritish for you (or a British Muslim) to have a critical view of British foreign policy? I cannot agree with you there is no hypocrisy ever in a country's foreign policy just because it is self-interested. Our own history is littered with such hypocrisies (and, yes, self interest)..we have supported (and armed) dictators when it suited us and at other times tried to oust the same dictators...Saddam anyone? The Emperor of Japan (pre 1945). On the question of the letter, I do not know, any more than you do. But, I correct myself. I should have said "anonymous and allegedly forged". Is the opinion of the (non muslim) deputy head teacher of one of the schools who described it as a hatchet job any less valid? I wasn't coming down on any side. Rather, seeking to understand and be critical of knee jerkism on all sides. Those who rule out any possibility of a calculated hatchet job (albeit one that backfired spectacularly) are as blinkered as those who say the opposite. Its called having an open mind, another British "western" value, no? It isn't un-British to be critical of foreign policy or indeed to hold most views. However, I repeat, to be British is to be western. If someone is anti-western then they are by implication anti-British. I think this is perhaps a question of language. Also, I repeat, there is no hypocrisy in foreign policy only self interest. If you feel that we have behaved somehow different to any other country please name me a country that acts behaved in the same way? I'd like to research this 'ethical' country. Also, I have to make the point here that 'we' have never 'ousted' dictators or whoever on our own without the support of groups within the country itself. Sure we have interfered and affected results but no country.....Unless it has gone to war....Overthrows a regime without considerable help from fractions within the country itself. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2014 12.48am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 18 Jun 14 1.23am | |
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Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 10.12pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 9.41pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 8.42pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 5.44pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.03pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am
I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years. Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty. pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you. Top 10 terrorists groups worldwide in 2012. 6 were Islamic fundamentalist types 4 were not (FARC,PKK, Indian Maoist, FLNC)
Do you remember your rant about UKIP where you said the problem would be in ten years time when millions of racists will be unleashed into the political hierarchy as a result of voting for Nigel Farage? Do you not apply the same logic to Muslim extremism or does that not count for some reason? How can I apply logic to that illogical paradigm? When we have a muslim party threatening the political status quo then your post/question will have some weight. As it stands it is just inconsequential fluff. UKIP, as I said, imo will have no option than to lurch further to the right the more power it gets. That, obviously, will attract BNP types. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 5.53pm)
Or does 'Kermits Law' only work for political groupings he opposes?
I've said that enough times now for you not to get it wrong yet still you do. Jet lag? I note that you do not respond about Muslim extremists but continue with your deluded UKIP bashing. Interesting. Is this deliberate or the result of exhaustion induced by a heavy day of house husbanding?
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matt_himself Matataland 18 Jun 14 7.25am | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.05pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 10.12pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 9.41pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 8.42pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 5.44pm
Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.03pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am
I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years. Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty. pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you. Top 10 terrorists groups worldwide in 2012. 6 were Islamic fundamentalist types 4 were not (FARC,PKK, Indian Maoist, FLNC)
Do you remember your rant about UKIP where you said the problem would be in ten years time when millions of racists will be unleashed into the political hierarchy as a result of voting for Nigel Farage? Do you not apply the same logic to Muslim extremism or does that not count for some reason? How can I apply logic to that illogical paradigm? When we have a muslim party threatening the political status quo then your post/question will have some weight. As it stands it is just inconsequential fluff. UKIP, as I said, imo will have no option than to lurch further to the right the more power it gets. That, obviously, will attract BNP types. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 5.53pm)
Or does 'Kermits Law' only work for political groupings he opposes?
I've said that enough times now for you not to get it wrong yet still you do. Jet lag? I note that you do not respond about Muslim extremists but continue with your deluded UKIP bashing. Interesting. Is this deliberate or the result of exhaustion induced by a heavy day of house husbanding?
Oh yeah, is this new obsession about house husbands a replacement for the fishing about my time as a teacher? Shucks - I really must set up a Twitter account so you can follow me 24/7. Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 11.12pm) Please do set up a Twitter account and cut & paste the below for an everyday description of your activities: 7.00 - up to make the wife her breakfast;
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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