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Hoof Hearted 01 Jun 16 10.56am

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Polish guy got his voting card for the referendum today. He registered on the electoral roll, accidentally marked "British", and the limit of their checks were "did he tick British?". How many else have done that? An utter farce, coupled with the postal vote "graphical aide to vote" scandal. Good job we have a proactive, effective Electoral Commission, eh?

Oh...

[Link]

Voters in this referendum should be limited to those that can turn up with a valid British passport as well as polling card to prove they are eligible.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 01 Jun 16 1.00pm

Originally posted by Willo

By no means certainties.

At the end of the day a vote to 'Remain' is a vote to maintain permanently the EU Treaty principle of "Free movement of people" and a vote to ensure that we have to admit economic migrants from the EU whether they have an offer of a job or not.

Voting to leave the EU isn't going to necessarily change that either, but I agree it gives the possibility to change that. There are also a considerable number of UK citizens working around Europe that would also be affected if we did exit the EU Freedom of movement. Leaving the EU doesn't mean an end to free movement. It only gives a potential capacity to do so. Countries like Norway, who aren't part of the EU have signed up to the 'Freedom of Movement'.

Originally posted by Willo

Furthermore a vote to "Remain" is to leave the "European Court Of Justice" to strike down decisions of the UK about asylum and immigration policy.

Well no, it doesn't, because that's not how the ECHR functions, in the slightest. The UK would still require a highest court of appeal, and this has been the European court since the 1950s. UK asylum and immigration policy must still remain within UK Law, and the ECHR only becomes involved where conflicts exist within two or more different legal status in law.

The Human Rights act would need to be revoked from British Law, as it was introduced by the UK Government, through all legal and due process, in 1998. This is where most of the conflict occurs, typically when the UK Government tries to do something that is actually against its own laws.

Originally posted by Willo

And a vote to "Remain" is a vote to continue membership of the EU whose ultimate goal is to have a "United States of Europe".

Hyperbole, this wouldn't really ever be viable, and the EU doesn't really have the capacity or authority to implement this. More sinister, is that the EU represents more of a Corporate State of Europe, than a United states of Europe.

Originally posted by Willo

Finally we are a major nation.Europe needs us.We need to govern our own country and NOT be dictated to by the dastardly EU.

Edited by Willo (01 Jun 2016 12.03am)

God save the queen, for king and country, Lloyd George and all that bollocks - We don't govern our own country, we have an elite that does that and damn it, we have our own rich elite w*ankers who dictate our lives etc. But its all hyperbole.

I'm all for leaving the EU, but in no way is it dictatorial or dastardly. Its simply necessary to redefine the nature of the EU and shared European identity, in a manner that represents the people of each nation, not commercial powers (which is the real power behind the EU).

I suspect that the UK breaking with the EU, will likely inspire further breaks from the EU, resulting ultimately in a different kind of Union further down the line.

Problem is, the illusion that the referendum will actually change anything. Even if its an exit, we will still be a nation ruled by corporate interests and their representatives.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 01 Jun 16 1.13pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Voters in this referendum should be limited to those that can turn up with a valid British passport as well as polling card to prove they are eligible.

I think this raises an interesting flaw in the idea of 'who's British' that actually no one really has a way of determining who is and who isn't British.

Its curious, maybe, that there isn't a central registry that lists all British nationals against which verification could be conducted.

Which suggest to me, that the idea of British Nationality isn't really that much of an important thing to governments in terms of ascertaining (and probably now an absolute nightmare to implement).

Do those ID cards seem like a good idea now?

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 01 Jun 16 1.15pm

Originally posted by corkery

About 100,000 Irish citizens plus thousand more who've moved to Northern Ireland. It's odd because UK nationals can't vote in Irish referendums.

Probably because Ireland is a separate country from the UK, but plenty of Irish citizens wanted to retain a British Identity etc.

Bloke I worked with in my previous role, spent 20 years in the British Army, and was Irish. We only found out when he failed Security Clearance (not a UK National) that he wasn't British, he was sure he was.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 01 Jun 16 1.17pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

No I don't agree with many of the points made by "JamieMartin".

Regarding free movement of Labour, admittedly Norway signed up for this but it certainly doesn't mean that the UK would do so. It is inconceivable that we would leave the EU yet allow the 'Status Quo' , as this whole issue is central to BREXIT.
We simply cannot compare Norway to the UK.

Regards the 'European Court Of Justice' they can interfere with our ability to deport criminals whose presence in our country is NOT conducive to the good of the public. The ECJ have the ultimate authority over whether we can remove such reprobates.Furthermore the ECJ can use the "Charter of Fundamental Rights' to overturn decisions of our elected politicians on asylum policy

Edited by Willo (01 Jun 2016 1.19pm)

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Jun 16 2.06pm

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 01 Jun 16 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Heavens above.

As Boris Johnson once said "An inverted pyramid of piffle" !

Article mentioned "Crude generalisations" which was very apt.I have spoken to vast numbers of Brexiteers and they certainly don't fit the profile portrayed in the blog.

Article also mentioned "Crackpot Extra-Right Tory fringe" - Many would say I'm a "Crackpot" and I am most certainly on that "Wing" of the party !!!!


 

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Hoof Hearted 01 Jun 16 3.15pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think this raises an interesting flaw in the idea of 'who's British' that actually no one really has a way of determining who is and who isn't British.

Its curious, maybe, that there isn't a central registry that lists all British nationals against which verification could be conducted.

Which suggest to me, that the idea of British Nationality isn't really that much of an important thing to governments in terms of ascertaining (and probably now an absolute nightmare to implement).

Do those ID cards seem like a good idea now?

They always did jamie!

It's only the likes of Nick Clegg and his Liberal namby pamby class that were against them.

All law abiding citizens have no problem with the need to carry ID to prove who they are.

Would make life that bit more difficult for illegals and terrorist types to continue living here as easily as they do now.

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 01 Jun 16 3.28pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Heavens above.

As Boris Johnson once said "An inverted pyramid of piffle" !

Article mentioned "Crude generalisations" which was very apt.I have spoken to vast numbers of Brexiteers and they certainly don't fit the profile portrayed in the blog.

Article also mentioned "Crackpot Extra-Right Tory fringe" - Many would say I'm a "Crackpot" and I am most certainly on that "Wing" of the party !!!!


It's not a great article/blog, but I do agree with his basic 'us v them' point. Some of the generalisations made (on both sides of the debate) on here and elsewhere, have been staggeringly stupid.

The final sign off is a fair reflection of the whole campaign though;

"Sadly both camps in the EU debate have realised that playing on people's basic emotions (anger and fear) is a good way to herd them over to their side of the argument, hence the appallingly low general standard of debate about such an important political issue. "

 

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DanH Flag SW2 01 Jun 16 4.48pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

They always did jamie!

It's only the likes of Nick Clegg and his Liberal namby pamby class that were against them.

All law abiding citizens have no problem with the need to carry ID to prove who they are.

Would make life that bit more difficult for illegals and terrorist types to continue living here as easily as they do now.

To be fair I'm approaching thirty and my youthful looks keep getting me IDed. Not being a driver they would have made my life easier as I'm f*cked if I'm carrying my passport everywhere.

 

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 01 Jun 16 4.55pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

To be fair I'm approaching thirty and my youthful looks keep getting me IDed. Not being a driver they would have made my life easier as I'm f*cked if I'm carrying my passport everywhere.

If that's the case, you should be compelled to carry it at all times.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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legaleagle Flag 01 Jun 16 8.12pm

Those with a Commonwealth passport living here can vote...At least EU nationals have a close connection with the EU....but people rarely seem to raise this anomaly allowing Commonwealth nations to vote in all our elections...


Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Voters in this referendum should be limited to those that can turn up with a valid British passport as well as polling card to prove they are eligible.

 

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