Hamas went looking for trouble. The Palestinian people did not deserve to have their towns levelled, people killed in their thousands, and now starved to death, being denied food and water and medical aid.

I disengage, I turn the page.

None of those soldiers started that day with that intention but the IRA who murdered our soldiers for decades did.

We prosecuted our own while letting murderers walk free. The example you use may feel morally right for you but not to me.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Agreed.

Blair's administration was full of decisions that turned out to be long term disasters. Mass migration, devolution, PPP to name some others.

He was a good talker and master politician but that old poster the Tories had of Blair with red eyes turned out to be more accurate than we thought.

He's still fecking things up today....determined to bring in his digital state control system.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2023 9.41am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Logic? The logic dear boy is that Israel wants to rid themselves of Hamas and expand into Gaza and Hamas gave them an excuse.

It's clear which side you sympathise with, as do many on the left, but you can't escape the fact that Hamas have done this to their own people with eager assistance from Netanyahu.

The West will not stop supporting a major ally in the region. The global chess game will not allow for sentimentality. Any noises in that direction are for the masses.

There is your logic, hard to swallow as it is.

I sympathise with the side being murdered in their tens of thousands, yes.

The bit in bold is more illogical nonsense - it suggests that any nation state that suffers a terrorist attack has the right to simply ignore international law, commit as many atrocities as they would like and displace millions of innocent people in response. The world has not worked like that for many many decades.

I completely understand the practical reasons why Israel is doing what they are doing - I’m not sure why you keep repeating this bit under some weird guise of telling ‘the hard truths’ - every genocidal regime in history could sit down and tell you why they are doing what they’re doing and why their cause is right - that doesn’t make it acceptable.

It is indeed an interesting read which does seem to conclude the futility of the situation. From memory - and I admit I cannot find the expression that I am about to describe - there is a phrase in certain parts of the Arab world that roughly translates to: anything that is weak is to be subjected to control or destruction. Consequently what we may see as a positive trait of seeking peace and reconciliation, to certain Arab minds means that we are showing weakness. This may be why Israel continues to do 'anti-western' actions; unfortunately this means fighting Hamas using its own rules of engagement.

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.