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Stirlingsays 21 Dec 21 1.30pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC It's like that worst Halloween film, where people are turned evil by watching laughing pumpkin faces on the TV or some such. So bad none of us can remember it. As Gloria Estefan states, "Omicron's gonna get you". Tonight! 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Dec 21 1.30pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

It's like that worst Halloween film, where people are turned evil by watching laughing pumpkin faces on the TV or some such. So bad none of us can remember it. As Gloria Estefan states, "Omicron's gonna get you".

Tonight!

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Dec 21 1.31pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If the vaccine doesn't protect you from the unvaccinated then it doesn't protect you from the virus. Over time it's highly unlikely that you can stop yourself form catching this virus regardless. You are much more likely to catch it from the vaccinated anyway because that comprises the majority of adults. Some of the most vaccinated countries have the highest case counts. Pointless fear mongering. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Dec 2021 12.56pm) You still don't get it, do you? Look at the stats posted by "Bearcage" at 8.06 am today. That eventually we are all likely to get infected isn't, and never has been, the issue. Nor is, through weight of numbers, that it is more likely that we will catch it from the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. That's just maths. It's not fearmongering to expect everyone who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated, in order to reduce the likelihood of them contracting severe disease, and unnecessarily using NHS resources needed for others. It's not fearmongering to try to flatten the infection curve as much as possible to ensure the NHS isn't overwhelmed and can continue to serve all our needs. It's not fearmongering to be cautious and prepared for the worst, whilst hoping for the best. Pointless? As Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said yesterday:- "It's better to cancel now and celebrate later, than to celebrate now and grieve later." For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Dec 21 1.31pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If the vaccine doesn't protect you from the unvaccinated then it doesn't protect you from the virus. Over time it's highly unlikely that you can stop yourself form catching this virus regardless. You are much more likely to catch it from the vaccinated anyway because that comprises the majority of adults. Some of the most vaccinated countries have the highest case counts.

Pointless fear mongering.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Dec 2021 12.56pm)

You still don't get it, do you?

Look at the stats posted by "Bearcage" at 8.06 am today.

That eventually we are all likely to get infected isn't, and never has been, the issue. Nor is, through weight of numbers, that it is more likely that we will catch it from the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. That's just maths.

It's not fearmongering to expect everyone who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated, in order to reduce the likelihood of them contracting severe disease, and unnecessarily using NHS resources needed for others.

It's not fearmongering to try to flatten the infection curve as much as possible to ensure the NHS isn't overwhelmed and can continue to serve all our needs.

It's not fearmongering to be cautious and prepared for the worst, whilst hoping for the best.

Pointless? As Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said yesterday:- "It's better to cancel now and celebrate later, than to celebrate now and grieve later."

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Dec 21 1.33pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Tonight! Apologies for reminding you of a song we'd most likely want to forget. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Dec 21 1.33pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Tonight!

Apologies for reminding you of a song we'd most likely want to forget.

Red and Blue Army!

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Stirlingsays 21 Dec 21 1.37pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Trouble is Stirling, that whilst you may be right the worst cases are amongst the unvaccinated and it is they who are clogging up the NHS. But for them then restrictions would barely exist. Most people I know who now have covid are vaccinated but this Omicron avoids it and gives you a cold generally. None of us have ever worried about a cold or a scratchy throat etc before now. I agree on the Fear factor! In my view the statistics don't justify it....and I have to be frank and say I don't think they ever have....similar to the thoughts in the 'Great Barrington Declaration' this approach has never been taken in medical history.....and we have had far worse viruses. I don't think the restrictions should exist anyway. The idea that you require total compliance for society to function is just unrealistic and irrational. Protect the vulnerable as best you can but then just get on with life....the risk management isn't realistic....when the IRA or Islamists were knifing or bombing cities it's not as though the government told everyone to stay at home instead of catching a train to work.....then they were anti fear mongering. This is something I've never seen in my lifetime and while most of these restrictions won't affect me nor change my mind I regard it as insidious....Coercion is wrong regardless of how some dress it up. How the NHS performs is a function of government and its management. Instead of trying to finger point the government should be doing the job its paid to do. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Dec 2021 1.44pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Dec 21 1.37pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Trouble is Stirling, that whilst you may be right the worst cases are amongst the unvaccinated and it is they who are clogging up the NHS.
But for them then restrictions would barely exist.
Most people I know who now have covid are vaccinated but this Omicron avoids it and gives you a cold generally.
None of us have ever worried about a cold or a scratchy throat etc before now.
I agree on the Fear factor!

In my view the statistics don't justify it....and I have to be frank and say I don't think they ever have....similar to the thoughts in the 'Great Barrington Declaration' this approach has never been taken in medical history.....and we have had far worse viruses.

I don't think the restrictions should exist anyway. The idea that you require total compliance for society to function is just unrealistic and irrational. Protect the vulnerable as best you can but then just get on with life....the risk management isn't realistic....when the IRA or Islamists were knifing or bombing cities it's not as though the government told everyone to stay at home instead of catching a train to work.....then they were anti fear mongering.

This is something I've never seen in my lifetime and while most of these restrictions won't affect me nor change my mind I regard it as insidious....Coercion is wrong regardless of how some dress it up.

How the NHS performs is a function of government and its management. Instead of trying to finger point the government should be doing the job its paid to do.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Dec 2021 1.44pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Dec 21 1.41pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And in my opinion it will be. Without stopping unvaccinated people from living their lives because of a worst case scenario which is ridiculous. Meanwhile the number of people in danger from missed appointments and treatment is ever increasing. You confirm, very succinctly, one of my central arguments. As the unvaccinated are significantly more likely to require NHS support with a Covid infection, them "living their lives" is increasing the danger of missed appointments and treatment. It's hardly a big deal to get vaccinated. The fear that some have over it's "newness" is irrational and unscientific. The selfishness that this irrationality produces is unacceptable. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Dec 21 1.41pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And in my opinion it will be. Without stopping unvaccinated people from living their lives because of a worst case scenario which is ridiculous. Meanwhile the number of people in danger from missed appointments and treatment is ever increasing.

You confirm, very succinctly, one of my central arguments.

As the unvaccinated are significantly more likely to require NHS support with a Covid infection, them "living their lives" is increasing the danger of missed appointments and treatment.

It's hardly a big deal to get vaccinated. The fear that some have over it's "newness" is irrational and unscientific. The selfishness that this irrationality produces is unacceptable.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Dec 21 1.42pm
EU wide now, vaccination passes are valid for 9 months. An injection every 9 months, no thanks. I was allowed time off with pay for the sickness caused by the original vaccine (I was badly ill for three weeks but was off anyway). But no such thing for the booster. Can't rely it won't make me badly ill, and now also skint or fired. [Link] Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Dec 21 1.42pm

EU wide now, vaccination passes are valid for 9 months. An injection every 9 months, no thanks. I was allowed time off with pay for the sickness caused by the original vaccine (I was badly ill for three weeks but was off anyway). But no such thing for the booster. Can't rely it won't make me badly ill, and now also skint or fired.

[Link]

Red and Blue Army!

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Teddy Eagle 21 Dec 21 1.52pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You confirm, very succinctly, one of my central arguments. As the unvaccinated are significantly more likely to require NHS support with a Covid infection, them "living their lives" is increasing the danger of missed appointments and treatment. It's hardly a big deal to get vaccinated. The fear that some have over it's "newness" is irrational and unscientific. The selfishness that this irrationality produces is unacceptable. Whereas making others get vaccinated against their will is completely selfless. Let everyone who is still worried stay indoors and let the rest of us get on with life.
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Teddy Eagle

21 Dec 21 1.52pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You confirm, very succinctly, one of my central arguments.

As the unvaccinated are significantly more likely to require NHS support with a Covid infection, them "living their lives" is increasing the danger of missed appointments and treatment.

It's hardly a big deal to get vaccinated. The fear that some have over it's "newness" is irrational and unscientific. The selfishness that this irrationality produces is unacceptable.

Whereas making others get vaccinated against their will is completely selfless. Let everyone who is still worried stay indoors and let the rest of us get on with life.

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The Dolphin 21 Dec 21 2.01pm
Stirling - I absolutely agree this time on no restrictions - or very few anyway. The support that Sunak has announced today will help hospitality and all Boris needs to do now is hold his nerve. The stats are appearing to be in his favour - bar in Sad Dick London and so leaving us alone may well prove to be his finest hour!
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The Dolphin

21 Dec 21 2.01pm

Stirling - I absolutely agree this time on no restrictions - or very few anyway.
The support that Sunak has announced today will help hospitality and all Boris needs to do now is hold his nerve.
The stats are appearing to be in his favour - bar in Sad Dick London and so leaving us alone may well prove to be his finest hour!

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Stirlingsays 21 Dec 21 2.09pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Stirling - I absolutely agree this time on no restrictions - or very few anyway. The support that Sunak has announced today will help hospitality and all Boris needs to do now is hold his nerve. The stats are appearing to be in his favour - bar in Sad Dick London and so leaving us alone may well prove to be his finest hour! Indeed sir! Let's hope we get to enjoy our Christmas as intended and that those affected in hospitality and other sectors get the help they deserve. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Dec 21 2.09pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Indeed sir!

Let's hope we get to enjoy our Christmas as intended and that those affected in hospitality and other sectors get the help they deserve.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 21 Dec 21 2.16pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Apologies for reminding you of a song we'd most likely want to forget. Not her best but upbeat at least. I think this was my favourite: [Link] Rather sad to hear her coming out with 'me too' stuff recently. We never know what goes on I suppose. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Dec 21 2.16pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Apologies for reminding you of a song we'd most likely want to forget.

Not her best but upbeat at least.

I think this was my favourite: [Link]

Rather sad to hear her coming out with 'me too' stuff recently. We never know what goes on I suppose.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Dec 21 2.59pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I and others have been highly criticised for our skeptical opinion of how covid has been dealt with. Maple criticised me on this specifically because I hadn't shown any views from epidemiologists and specific virus specialists. Ok, when looking into this there are in fact very eminent specialists who have done exactly that, including a Noble prize winner. It's policy approach maps quite accurately to the arguments made by myself and others on here. It's called the Great Barrington Declaration and the link will be at the bottom of the page. The most notable signers are: Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations. Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations. [Link] Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Dec 2021 4.54pm) You are like a fisherman trawling a barren sea looking for any scraps that might support you. That there will always be some who stand outside the consensus is hardly unusual. Different opinions exist in all walks of life. This report though, published on 4th October 2020, prior to the vaccines being available, is now ancient history in the context of this pandemic. Just because 3 academics took a different line back then didn't make them right in 2020, and it certainly doesn't make them right now. Indeed, when you consider who funded them, it raises questions about motivation. Jeffrey Tucker is an American economics writer of the Austrian School, an advocate of anarcho-capitalism. He has been actively campaigning against lockdowns and mask wearing. To say he is a political activist would be an understatement. There were responses to this "declaration" at the time, which were pretty scathing. The American Public Health Association and 13 other public-health groups in the United States warned in a joint open letter that the Great Barrington Declaration, "is not a strategy, it is a political statement. It ignores sound public health expertise. It preys on a frustrated populace. Instead of selling false hope that will predictably backfire, we must focus on how to manage this pandemic in a safe, responsible, and equitable way." So you have trawled up something that doesn't appear to be very palatable to anyone other than those who agree with your politics. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Dec 21 2.59pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I and others have been highly criticised for our skeptical opinion of how covid has been dealt with.

Maple criticised me on this specifically because I hadn't shown any views from epidemiologists and specific virus specialists. Ok, when looking into this there are in fact very eminent specialists who have done exactly that, including a Noble prize winner. It's policy approach maps quite accurately to the arguments made by myself and others on here.

It's called the Great Barrington Declaration and the link will be at the bottom of the page.

The most notable signers are:

Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Dec 2021 4.54pm)

You are like a fisherman trawling a barren sea looking for any scraps that might support you.

That there will always be some who stand outside the consensus is hardly unusual. Different opinions exist in all walks of life. This report though, published on 4th October 2020, prior to the vaccines being available, is now ancient history in the context of this pandemic. Just because 3 academics took a different line back then didn't make them right in 2020, and it certainly doesn't make them right now. Indeed, when you consider who funded them, it raises questions about motivation. Jeffrey Tucker is an American economics writer of the Austrian School, an advocate of anarcho-capitalism. He has been actively campaigning against lockdowns and mask wearing. To say he is a political activist would be an understatement.

There were responses to this "declaration" at the time, which were pretty scathing. The American Public Health Association and 13 other public-health groups in the United States warned in a joint open letter that the Great Barrington Declaration, "is not a strategy, it is a political statement. It ignores sound public health expertise. It preys on a frustrated populace. Instead of selling false hope that will predictably backfire, we must focus on how to manage this pandemic in a safe, responsible, and equitable way."

So you have trawled up something that doesn't appear to be very palatable to anyone other than those who agree with your politics.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 21 Dec 21 3.06pm
As expected Scotland goes a bit further with the restrictions. [Link]
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Teddy Eagle

21 Dec 21 3.06pm

As expected Scotland goes a bit further with the restrictions.

[Link]

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