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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 15 Nov 18 4.09pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I find this impossible to disagree with - anyone who still feels this referendum was a good idea only does so because they are clinging to the idea that they won something. I think this has been deliberately confused. The referendum required a straight answer: should we remain in or leave the EU. I, and everyone else I know who voted to leave expected just that. Exit from the EU and the paraphernalia that went with it - exit from the Single Market, Customs Union, cessation of funding and everything else that membership involves. No half measures, no wishy-washy ‘half in, half out’ arrangement that would leave our trading capacity, legislature and legal system hamstrung and forever in fief to the EU. ‘Out’ means exactly that. Saying that you can still be subject to some elements of it is as much of an absurdity as the notion that you can be a little bit pregnant. It’s bollocks. The 2016 referendum delivered a definitive answer - and yes it was definitive. Governments have been elected with smaller majorities. Since the referendum, the machinery of politics has swung into action, suggesting somehow that there was ‘something wrong’ with the result and doing everything possible to frustrate, or dilute, what the electorate voted for. By pursuing the line that we can be ‘out’ yet simultaneously ‘in’ is an affront to the democratic process and was emphatically not what the referendum asked. This whole business has been criminally ineptly conducted by a government determined to weasel its way out of the referendum result. I have to conclude that May must be irretrievably stupid to negotiate a ‘deal’ that is patently unacceptable to both the Leave and Reman camps and will get absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the Commons. Never in all my life have I experienced a government that is so thoroughly incapable of government, a government that has gone out of its way to trash this country’s reputation and standing in the world. And that makes me, and I suspect many others, toweringly angry.
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DanH SW2 15 Nov 18 4.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
I think this has been deliberately confused. The referendum required a straight answer: should we remain in or leave the EU. I, and everyone else I know who voted to leave expected just that. Exit from the EU and the paraphernalia that went with it - exit from the Single Market, Customs Union, cessation of funding and everything else that membership involves. No half measures, no wishy-washy ‘half in, half out’ arrangement that would leave our trading capacity, legislature and legal system hamstrung and forever in fief to the EU. ‘Out’ means exactly that. Saying that you can still be subject to some elements of it is as much of an absurdity as the notion that you can be a little bit pregnant. It’s bollocks. The 2016 referendum delivered a definitive answer - and yes it was definitive. Governments have been elected with smaller majorities. Since the referendum, the machinery of politics has swung into action, suggesting somehow that there was ‘something wrong’ with the result and doing everything possible to frustrate, or dilute, what the electorate voted for. By pursuing the line that we can be ‘out’ yet simultaneously ‘in’ is an affront to the democratic process and was emphatically not what the referendum asked. This whole business has been criminally ineptly conducted by a government determined to weasel its way out of the referendum result. I have to conclude that May must be irretrievably stupid to negotiate a ‘deal’ that is patently unacceptable to both the Leave and Reman camps and will get absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the Commons. Never in all my life have I experienced a government that is so thoroughly incapable of government, a government that has gone out of its way to trash this country’s reputation and standing in the world. And that makes me, and I suspect many others, toweringly angry. There is no way that 52:48 is 'definitive' in any way shape or form. No rational person would base an important life decision on that ratio if they canvassed their close friends and family.
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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Nov 18 4.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
I think this has been deliberately confused. The referendum required a straight answer: should we remain in or leave the EU. I, and everyone else I know who voted to leave expected just that. Exit from the EU and the paraphernalia that went with it - exit from the Single Market, Customs Union, cessation of funding and everything else that membership involves. No half measures, no wishy-washy ‘half in, half out’ arrangement that would leave our trading capacity, legislature and legal system hamstrung and forever in fief to the EU. ‘Out’ means exactly that. Saying that you can still be subject to some elements of it is as much of an absurdity as the notion that you can be a little bit pregnant. It’s bollocks. The 2016 referendum delivered a definitive answer - and yes it was definitive. Governments have been elected with smaller majorities. Since the referendum, the machinery of politics has swung into action, suggesting somehow that there was ‘something wrong’ with the result and doing everything possible to frustrate, or dilute, what the electorate voted for. By pursuing the line that we can be ‘out’ yet simultaneously ‘in’ is an affront to the democratic process and was emphatically not what the referendum asked. This whole business has been criminally ineptly conducted by a government determined to weasel its way out of the referendum result. I have to conclude that May must be irretrievably stupid to negotiate a ‘deal’ that is patently unacceptable to both the Leave and Reman camps and will get absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the Commons. Never in all my life have I experienced a government that is so thoroughly incapable of government, a government that has gone out of its way to trash this country’s reputation and standing in the world. And that makes me, and I suspect many others, toweringly angry. Lock yourself in a darkened room with some Delius. Works for me. I suspect some in the Commons will be doing similar tonight. We all suspected that those scumbags would give us Rex-it.
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Only 10 a year!! 15 Nov 18 4.18pm | |
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The whole thing should have been removed from the party political scene. A working party filled with a few from each main party should have been assembled to work with a common goal. Unfortunately it has developed into a major political football and point scoring exercise. It was never a party political issue and getting consensus is going to prove impossible. Plus every tom, dick and harry no matter their intelligence or knowledge has an opinion on it!!
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 15 Nov 18 4.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
I think this has been deliberately confused. The referendum required a straight answer: should we remain in or leave the EU. I, and everyone else I know who voted to leave expected just that. Exit from the EU and the paraphernalia that went with it - exit from the Single Market, Customs Union, cessation of funding and everything else that membership involves. No half measures, no wishy-washy ‘half in, half out’ arrangement that would leave our trading capacity, legislature and legal system hamstrung and forever in fief to the EU. ‘Out’ means exactly that. Saying that you can still be subject to some elements of it is as much of an absurdity as the notion that you can be a little bit pregnant. It’s bollocks. The 2016 referendum delivered a definitive answer - and yes it was definitive. Governments have been elected with smaller majorities. Since the referendum, the machinery of politics has swung into action, suggesting somehow that there was ‘something wrong’ with the result and doing everything possible to frustrate, or dilute, what the electorate voted for. By pursuing the line that we can be ‘out’ yet simultaneously ‘in’ is an affront to the democratic process and was emphatically not what the referendum asked. This whole business has been criminally ineptly conducted by a government determined to weasel its way out of the referendum result. I have to conclude that May must be irretrievably stupid to negotiate a ‘deal’ that is patently unacceptable to both the Leave and Reman camps and will get absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the Commons. Never in all my life have I experienced a government that is so thoroughly incapable of government, a government that has gone out of its way to trash this country’s reputation and standing in the world. And that makes me, and I suspect many others, toweringly angry. I think the confusion is the inevitable result of trying to resolve an extremely complex issue with a simplistic binary question, and posing the question to an electorate who are not well-informed enough to answer it (that is not a dig at leavers). Other than that, I agree completely that this is the most incompetent government I have experienced.
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 15 Nov 18 4.26pm | |
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Originally posted by DanH
There is no way that 52:48 is 'definitive' in any way shape or form. No rational person would base an important life decision on that ratio if they canvassed their close friends and family. General Elections (including the last one) have been won on slimmer margins. How can you say that 52-48 isn’t definitive? A majority is a majority and nobody said at the time that the result couldn’t be valid unless one side won by a certain margin. Are you seriously suggesting that we can now go back retrospectively and decide that ‘it wasn’t enough’? Pure sophistry on your part.
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 15 Nov 18 4.27pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I think the confusion is the inevitable result of trying to resolve an extremely complex issue with a simplistic binary question, and posing the question to an electorate who are not well-informed enough to answer it (that is not a dig at leavers). Other than that, I agree completely that this is the most incompetent government I have experienced. But how can ‘do you want to stay in or leave’ be a complex issue?
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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Nov 18 4.30pm | |
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As Farage just said on the BBC. May has done all she can to keep us in Europe in all but name. The deal needs to be rejected. May needs to go now.
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DanH SW2 15 Nov 18 4.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
General Elections (including the last one) have been won on slimmer margins. How can you say that 52-48 isn’t definitive? A majority is a majority and nobody said at the time that the result couldn’t be valid unless one side won by a certain margin. Are you seriously suggesting that we can now go back retrospectively and decide that ‘it wasn’t enough’? Pure sophistry on your part. I’m not suggesting it wasn’t a majority nor do I want to go back and decide it wasn’t enough. I just disagree with your definition of ‘definitive’.
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 15 Nov 18 4.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
But how can ‘do you want to stay in or leave’ be a complex issue?
Well, EU membership is the complex issue - surely anyone can acknowledge that, particularly in light of what’s gone on in the last two years.
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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Nov 18 4.37pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Well, EU membership is the complex issue - surely anyone can acknowledge that, particularly in light of what’s gone on in the last two years. This isn't about complexity, it is about will.
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chris123 hove actually 15 Nov 18 4.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
I think this has been deliberately confused. The referendum required a straight answer: should we remain in or leave the EU. I, and everyone else I know who voted to leave expected just that. Exit from the EU and the paraphernalia that went with it - exit from the Single Market, Customs Union, cessation of funding and everything else that membership involves. No half measures, no wishy-washy ‘half in, half out’ arrangement that would leave our trading capacity, legislature and legal system hamstrung and forever in fief to the EU. ‘Out’ means exactly that. Saying that you can still be subject to some elements of it is as much of an absurdity as the notion that you can be a little bit pregnant. It’s bollocks. The 2016 referendum delivered a definitive answer - and yes it was definitive. Governments have been elected with smaller majorities. Since the referendum, the machinery of politics has swung into action, suggesting somehow that there was ‘something wrong’ with the result and doing everything possible to frustrate, or dilute, what the electorate voted for. By pursuing the line that we can be ‘out’ yet simultaneously ‘in’ is an affront to the democratic process and was emphatically not what the referendum asked. This whole business has been criminally ineptly conducted by a government determined to weasel its way out of the referendum result. I have to conclude that May must be irretrievably stupid to negotiate a ‘deal’ that is patently unacceptable to both the Leave and Reman camps and will get absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the Commons. Never in all my life have I experienced a government that is so thoroughly incapable of government, a government that has gone out of its way to trash this country’s reputation and standing in the world. And that makes me, and I suspect many others, toweringly angry. Well I just want to leave and am keen to hear who's got any better ideas, it's a massive compromise and quite understand many won't like this one.
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