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Mapletree Croydon 05 Mar 22 10.46pm | |
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Originally posted by W12
It seems almost nobody wants to understand what led up to 2014 and what happened since. In my opinion, until that happens, everyone will have a skewed idea about what is now going on in Ukraine and why. Add to that, our media are just f***ing outright liars. Russian national Igor Strelkov, a former commander of pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, has claimed personal responsibility for unleashing the conflict in which 13,000 people have been killed since April 2014. "I was the one who pulled the trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views. "If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out — like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, who uses that nom-de-guerre meaning "Shooter" to replace his last name Girkin, was quoted as saying. "There would have been several dozen killed, burned, detained. And that would have been the end of it. But the flywheel of the war, which is continuing to this day, was spun by our unit. We mixed up all the cards on the table," he said. Perhaps the Russian media is also lying. Or a minority of the Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine were bankrolled by the Russian Government and supported by Russian units crossing into Ukraine to help seize control and hold it through the use of secret police and fear. Here you can see the lies from Aljazeera: Edited by Mapletree (05 Mar 2022 10.48pm)
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Mapletree Croydon 05 Mar 22 10.55pm | |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
What is the view on post conflict Ukraine? Will the new border between Ukraine and Russia be the Dnieper? Will there be a mass migration of people into western Ukraine? I have no idea what the eastern part of Ukraine has in terms of resources that Russia may well be after. The Donetsk basin (Donbass), located on the territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, is the largest in Ukraine. The discovered reserves of industrial categories of Donbass coal are 57 billion tons. With an annual production of 100 million tons, these reserves will last for 570 years. There are three main oil and gas bearing provinces in Ukraine. The main one is the Dnieper-Donetsk oil and gas province Ukraine has the largest reserves of titanium in Europe. 15 titanium deposits have been discovered in the country (4 of which are being developed). The deposits are located in the Kyiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv, and Donetsk regions. Ukraine has 1.8% of world uranium reserves, 45.6 thousand tons. There are 17 deposits (14 in the Kirovohrad region, 2 in the Nikolaev region, 1 in the Dnipropetrovsk region). Odessa, the third largest city in Ukraine, is a popular tourist resort and is strategically significant. “It is fundamental to the way it exports agricultural goods, iron ore, titanium; Ukraine is very rich in minerals and this stuff generally travels by sea,” Edited by Mapletree (05 Mar 2022 10.57pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 22 11.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What he said was rubbish. So what you see on TV is exactly what has happened is it. Don't think for yourself just nod along to the telly and politician and think what you are told to think. People who believe in 'good v evil' narratives and manipulated narratives of history yet wish to eliminate religion are nothing but replacement liars like the fantasy narratives of religion itself. Every word he says is propaganda towards his own ends in the same way you'd expect from an ex marketing and sales manager. You stand with WE, it's your new standard. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2022 4.40pm) I didn't say that, and I don't think anyone here is likely to believe it either. Truth is usually the first casualty in any war. However, there is so much evidence of what Russia is doing that it cannot all be faked. There are also many reporters with established reputations who I trust implicitly. Most of my post was though dealing with this idea that Nato bears some responsibility for what has happened. This is what I believe is truly rubbish. I won't explain why again. It's in my previous post, with links which explain in great detail why this is. Explanations which are completely logical and match my own observations at every stage. Putin is using this an excuse, and it's quite sad to know that a certain western mindset is providing him with quotes he can harvest and feed to ordinary Russians as propaganda. Sad too to know some here echo these ideas, but also pleasing to know that others agree with my analysis. I suppose I should be used to these regular misrepresentations of my positions on a variety of subjects. Is it just prejudices which are so deeply entrenched they are creating a blindness to reason, or just a determination to try to taint me with inaccurate allegations because of a personal dislike? Whatever it is the idea that I want to "eliminate religion" has already been made, and corrected, several times. It is NOT true. I have no problem at all with anyone's religious belief. That's their business. All I want to do is ensure that those who don't share it aren't impacted by it. People have a right to believe. Those who don't, or believe something else, also have rights. It's really just common sense.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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W12 05 Mar 22 11.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I didn't say that, and I don't think anyone here is likely to believe it either. Truth is usually the first casualty in any war. However, there is so much evidence of what Russia is doing that it cannot all be faked. There are also many reporters with established reputations who I trust implicitly. Most of my post was though dealing with this idea that Nato bears some responsibility for what has happened. This is what I believe is truly rubbish. I won't explain why again. It's in my previous post, with links which explain in great detail why this is. Explanations which are completely logical and match my own observations at every stage. Putin is using this an excuse, and it's quite sad to know that a certain western mindset is providing him with quotes he can harvest and feed to ordinary Russians as propaganda. Sad too to know some here echo these ideas, but also pleasing to know that others agree with my analysis. I suppose I should be used to these regular misrepresentations of my positions on a variety of subjects. Is it just prejudices which are so deeply entrenched they are creating a blindness to reason, or just a determination to try to taint me with inaccurate allegations because of a personal dislike? Whatever it is the idea that I want to "eliminate religion" has already been made, and corrected, several times. It is NOT true. I have no problem at all with anyone's religious belief. That's their business. All I want to do is ensure that those who don't share it aren't impacted by it. People have a right to believe. Those who don't, or believe something else, also have rights. It's really just common sense. Like I said before, you are the hatchling. You wake up every day like you are entirely new to the world. Most people are like you which is depressing. (I’m not saying you are bad by the way)
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 06 Mar 22 1.00am | |
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Some actual Ukrainians interviewed by the usually hilarious Aussie Man (Reviews)-(AKA Ethan Marrell). [Link]
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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BlueJay UK 06 Mar 22 3.40am | |
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The idea that 'the mainstream' in the West offers zero truth and reliable coverage at all, and that in contrast any basement dweller going or even the Kremlin gift us with some kind of unvarnished truth is risible to the extreme. Russia is going to extreme lengths (both legally and in terms of censorship) to reframe perception of this conflict, primarily because their message and their actions are worlds apart. Nobody is denying that in terms of NATO there were previously options with how this was played. But we are where are are, and where people buy into laughable narratives about 'special operations' to 'denazify' Ukraine with repeated denials regarding civiliation casualties, they're fine ones to talk about propaganda. I get a bit fed up with some self proclaiming a kind of love of country above all others, while simultaneously holding broad, pointless dislikes of their own countrymen and a weird subservience to murderous, authoritarian regimes that make life in this country look like a dream. If you like Russia so much f off and move there. As I said before, such traitor level behaviour is perfectly fine to state here. Do your own country down, do down the west, you're free to. Make Russia or other such regimes your home though and you'd fast end up with a cell instead of a soap box for such behaviour. Edited by BlueJay (06 Mar 2022 3.51am)
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BlueJay UK 06 Mar 22 4.03am | |
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To my mind there is little option but to greet the attack on Ukraine with at minimum, ramped up sensations, and the arming of those wishing to defend their country. To roll over in the face of war and threats is a green light to more of the same going forward. It would be very easy for Putin to pause the bombings and in some cases targeting of civilians areas. For as long as he doesn't he needs to be reminded that there are significant consequences to that.
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HKOwen Hong Kong 06 Mar 22 7.17am | |
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The human tragedy is not faked when you watch a live broadcast from reception centre for refugees on the Polish border.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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Spiderman Horsham 06 Mar 22 8.49am | |
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Prediction video made in 2019. Frightening
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Mar 22 9.22am | |
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Originally posted by W12
Like I said before, you are the hatchling. You wake up every day like you are entirely new to the world. Most people are like you which is depressing. (I’m not saying you are bad by the way) As that means I have 28347 days worth of similar experiences the idea that I have learned nothing in that time is a little improbable, isn't it? Especially when you consider everything I have managed in that time. People who deny reality, as you very clearly do, are extremely isolated and becoming ever more so. The evidence is on our screens and in our ears constantly. Some things are self-evidently true, and this is certainly one of them. Having contrary political opinions, or views on social issues, is all part of a healthy discourse in which we can all express ourselves, and then accept the will of the majority. Riling against that which is obviously true is just stupidity.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Mapletree Croydon 06 Mar 22 10.09am | |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
The idea that 'the mainstream' in the West offers zero truth and reliable coverage at all, and that in contrast any basement dweller going or even the Kremlin gift us with some kind of unvarnished truth is risible to the extreme. Russia is going to extreme lengths (both legally and in terms of censorship) to reframe perception of this conflict, primarily because their message and their actions are worlds apart. Nobody is denying that in terms of NATO there were previously options with how this was played. But we are where are are, and where people buy into laughable narratives about 'special operations' to 'denazify' Ukraine with repeated denials regarding civiliation casualties, they're fine ones to talk about propaganda. I get a bit fed up with some self proclaiming a kind of love of country above all others, while simultaneously holding broad, pointless dislikes of their own countrymen and a weird subservience to murderous, authoritarian regimes that make life in this country look like a dream. If you like Russia so much f off and move there. As I said before, such traitor level behaviour is perfectly fine to state here. Do your own country down, do down the west, you're free to. Make Russia or other such regimes your home though and you'd fast end up with a cell instead of a soap box for such behaviour. Edited by BlueJay (06 Mar 2022 3.51am) Great post According to his profile, W12 is in Russia.
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 06 Mar 22 11.22am | |
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Red and Blue Army! |
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