Stadium Redevelopment

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Stadium Redevelopment

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Lyons550 Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.11pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Painter It’s not in Sainsburys interest at all, they got a good deal of Boyle years ago, why would they give up their land. South Norwood folded years ago, if you hadn’t realised. Edited by Painter (05 Dec 2017 2.04pm) Thats a mipoic view in my opinion...of course its in their interests...if they concede the strip of land at a fair price, which in turn will increase footfall to the area, more potential custom it could also lead to a new store in a re-built WHorse end when further development occurs. As for South Norwood folding years ago...that's nothing compared with what would happen without any matchday crowds at all. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.11pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Painter

It’s not in Sainsburys interest at all, they got a good deal of Boyle years ago, why would they give up their land.
South Norwood folded years ago, if you hadn’t realised.

Edited by Painter (05 Dec 2017 2.04pm)

Thats a mipoic view in my opinion...of course its in their interests...if they concede the strip of land at a fair price, which in turn will increase footfall to the area, more potential custom it could also lead to a new store in a re-built WHorse end when further development occurs.

As for South Norwood folding years ago...that's nothing compared with what would happen without any matchday crowds at all.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Lyons550 Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.16pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Rudi Hedman [Link] A map of SP in 2013 sent in for planning application. I think we own everything inside the bold blue line. Sainsburys definitely own the shaded car park that shoppers park in. Surely we'd be building at least slightly on their land there? The boundary is 12 yards up the pitch and making the pitch longer would make it about 15/16 yards and almost on the edge of the box. Maybe the curving of the stand gets round this but then there's the middle bulk of the stand. Don't they own and lease to us the white shaded car park, which we definitely need to build on? The 4 houses are definitely closer in that map than on the model and would need a CPO, which would probably happen. They've been moved back on the model to avoid any negative reactions because if you dropped the new stand in place right now it would go on top of those 4 houses. The new stand goes back a long way! Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Dec 2017 2.42pm) Which is why I mentioned earlier the first row of parking spaces in their carpark being the main issue. They're willing to sell but to hold the club to ransom in doing so; knowing that its a strategic piece of the puzzle. It's v good business but perhaps not the wisest PR move. A CPO can be used to push this through but doing so would sour relations between both parties which wouldn't be wise considering potential further development of Selhurst. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.16pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

[Link]

A map of SP in 2013 sent in for planning application. I think we own everything inside the bold blue line.

Sainsburys definitely own the shaded car park that shoppers park in. Surely we'd be building at least slightly on their land there? The boundary is 12 yards up the pitch and making the pitch longer would make it about 15/16 yards and almost on the edge of the box. Maybe the curving of the stand gets round this but then there's the middle bulk of the stand.

Don't they own and lease to us the white shaded car park, which we definitely need to build on?

The 4 houses are definitely closer in that map than on the model and would need a CPO, which would probably happen. They've been moved back on the model to avoid any negative reactions because if you dropped the new stand in place right now it would go on top of those 4 houses. The new stand goes back a long way!

Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Dec 2017 2.42pm)

Which is why I mentioned earlier the first row of parking spaces in their carpark being the main issue. They're willing to sell but to hold the club to ransom in doing so; knowing that its a strategic piece of the puzzle. It's v good business but perhaps not the wisest PR move. A CPO can be used to push this through but doing so would sour relations between both parties which wouldn't be wise considering potential further development of Selhurst.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Eaglecoops CR3 05 Dec 17 3.17pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Maybe that's Parish's aim because there's certainly been no price agreed and it looks as though we need land to do this that they own. Thanks for the link Rudi. If the land owned blue (which is the traditional outline colour for adjacent landlholding) is correct and current, then it looks from that plan that we must have done a sale and lease back of that end of the ground at some point in the past. Would need to see leases to see exactly where we stand however the ball would appear to be firmly in Sainsburys court. CPO rules are complex, but it would not be out of the question if the Council feel it is in the public interest for it to occur. Threat of CPO is normally sufficient to get two sides talking at reasonable price, as is a big fat chequebook however Sainsburys will not only be looking at the value of the land to be sold but also at the reduction in the value of their asset as a result of the loss of car parking. Hands up all those who would stop shopping there if the car parking disappears? I really do hope that SP has done his homework properly on all of this before releasing yesterdays scheme as there would be huge disappointment if this is a damp squib.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 05 Dec 17 3.17pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Maybe that's Parish's aim because there's certainly been no price agreed and it looks as though we need land to do this that they own.

Thanks for the link Rudi. If the land owned blue (which is the traditional outline colour for adjacent landlholding) is correct and current, then it looks from that plan that we must have done a sale and lease back of that end of the ground at some point in the past. Would need to see leases to see exactly where we stand however the ball would appear to be firmly in Sainsburys court. CPO rules are complex, but it would not be out of the question if the Council feel it is in the public interest for it to occur. Threat of CPO is normally sufficient to get two sides talking at reasonable price, as is a big fat chequebook however Sainsburys will not only be looking at the value of the land to be sold but also at the reduction in the value of their asset as a result of the loss of car parking. Hands up all those who would stop shopping there if the car parking disappears?

I really do hope that SP has done his homework properly on all of this before releasing yesterdays scheme as there would be huge disappointment if this is a damp squib.

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Mstrobez 05 Dec 17 3.18pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Lyons550 Thats a mipoic view in my opinion...of course its in their interests...if they concede the strip of land at a fair price, which in turn will increase footfall to the area, more potential custom it could also lead to a new store in a re-built WHorse end when further development occurs. As for South Norwood folding years ago...that's nothing compared with what would happen without any matchday crowds at all. Whilst I agree with you, you can't underestimate the value Supermarket chains especially place on square footage within their development. It's like gold dust We're the Arthur over ere!
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Mstrobez

05 Dec 17 3.18pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Lyons550

As for South Norwood folding years ago...that's nothing compared with what would happen without any matchday crowds at all.

Whilst I agree with you, you can't underestimate the value Supermarket chains especially place on square footage within their development. It's like gold dust

We're the Arthur over ere!

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Lyons550 Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.19pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Mstrobez Whilst I agree with you, you can't underestimate the value Supermarket chains especially place on square footage within their development. It's like gold dust ...but who's to say they couldn't increase it as part of a new stand? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.19pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Whilst I agree with you, you can't underestimate the value Supermarket chains especially place on square footage within their development. It's like gold dust

...but who's to say they couldn't increase it as part of a new stand?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Spitfire Biggin Hill 05 Dec 17 3.19pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Sainsbury's along with all food retailers are struggling to know what to do with their larger stores as sales have been massively hit by internet shopping and changing shopping habits. Not sure how big the store is currently but I would suggest they would probably welcome the opportunity to downsize and have a refit funded by CPFC via land sales / swap / possible use of the full CPFC car park during non match days. Possibly better frontage on to WH road.
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Spitfire

Biggin Hill 05 Dec 17 3.19pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Sainsbury's along with all food retailers are struggling to know what to do with their larger stores as sales have been massively hit by internet shopping and changing shopping habits.

Not sure how big the store is currently but I would suggest they would probably welcome the opportunity to downsize and have a refit funded by CPFC via land sales / swap / possible use of the full CPFC car park during non match days. Possibly better frontage on to WH road.

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Mstrobez 05 Dec 17 3.21pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Lyons550 ...but who's to say they couldn't increase it as part of a new stand? Possible but actually increase the percentage of land they own? Very doubtful, surely. We're the Arthur over ere!
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Mstrobez

05 Dec 17 3.21pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Lyons550

...but who's to say they couldn't increase it as part of a new stand?

Possible but actually increase the percentage of land they own? Very doubtful, surely.

We're the Arthur over ere!

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Lyons550 Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.23pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Mstrobez Possible but actually increase the percentage of land they own? Very doubtful, surely. 2 floors? Get rid of the house above...all it takes is a bit of imagination...and the will, of course The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.23pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Possible but actually increase the percentage of land they own? Very doubtful, surely.

2 floors? Get rid of the house above...all it takes is a bit of imagination...and the will, of course

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Mstrobez 05 Dec 17 3.26pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Lyons550 2 floors? Get rid of the house above...all it takes is a bit of imagination...and the will, of course Looks like Sainsbury's could be the Irish border of this negotiation. Will take "creativity" and "good will", I just hope Parish is a smoother operator than Davis. Either way, when you explore these pitfalls, it does really expose the complexity of this that maybe some are underestimating. Edited by Mstrobez (05 Dec 2017 3.27pm) We're the Arthur over ere!
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Mstrobez

05 Dec 17 3.26pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Lyons550

2 floors? Get rid of the house above...all it takes is a bit of imagination...and the will, of course

Looks like Sainsbury's could be the Irish border of this negotiation. Will take "creativity" and "good will", I just hope Parish is a smoother operator than Davis.

Either way, when you explore these pitfalls, it does really expose the complexity of this that maybe some are underestimating.

Edited by Mstrobez (05 Dec 2017 3.27pm)

We're the Arthur over ere!

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rikz Croydon 05 Dec 17 3.28pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Maybe a stupid question, but does anyone know why the club and Sainsburys don't seem to want to work together ? Would it not be beneficial to both parties to reach an agreement that sees us redeveloping the main stand and whitehorse, with Sainsbury's losing some land in return for a new store on a new stadium in a soon to be gentrified area. Is it because the club only want to do it stand by stand or are Sainsbury's just not interested or expecting us to buy land at a premium and then build them a new store also ?
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rikz

Croydon 05 Dec 17 3.28pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Maybe a stupid question, but does anyone know why the club and Sainsburys don't seem to want to work together ? Would it not be beneficial to both parties to reach an agreement that sees us redeveloping the main stand and whitehorse, with Sainsbury's losing some land in return for a new store on a new stadium in a soon to be gentrified area.

Is it because the club only want to do it stand by stand or are Sainsbury's just not interested or expecting us to buy land at a premium and then build them a new store also ?

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Eaglecoops CR3 05 Dec 17 3.29pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Spitfire Sainsbury's along with all food retailers are struggling to know what to do with their larger stores as sales have been massively hit by internet shopping and changing shopping habits. Not sure how big the store is currently but I would suggest they would probably welcome the opportunity to downsize and have a refit funded by CPFC via land sales / swap / possible use of the full CPFC car park during non match days. Possibly better frontage on to WH road. Fair comment, I'm sure this will all come out in the wash.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 05 Dec 17 3.29pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Spitfire

Sainsbury's along with all food retailers are struggling to know what to do with their larger stores as sales have been massively hit by internet shopping and changing shopping habits.

Fair comment, I'm sure this will all come out in the wash.

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Lyons550 Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.31pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Mstrobez Looks like Sainsbury's could be the Irish border of this negotiation. Will take "creativity" and "good will", I just hope Parish is a smoother operator than Davis. Either way, when you explore these pitfalls, it does really expose the complexity of this that maybe some are underestimating. Edited by Mstrobez (05 Dec 2017 3.27pm) So right...and yet all most do is berate him and others for not simply getting it done..without simply considering this sort of stuff. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 05 Dec 17 3.31pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Looks like Sainsbury's could be the Irish border of this negotiation. Will take "creativity" and "good will", I just hope Parish is a smoother operator than Davis.

Either way, when you explore these pitfalls, it does really expose the complexity of this that maybe some are underestimating.

Edited by Mstrobez (05 Dec 2017 3.27pm)

So right...and yet all most do is berate him and others for not simply getting it done..without simply considering this sort of stuff.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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