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Rudi Hedman Caterham 26 Nov 19 2.39pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You wrote an excellent post and on this point I'd agree with you on assimilation (up to a point). I view Jews as a positive. However, they are a majority voting block for the left....it's just statistically true and has been true since the world wars. Though we all know of right wing Jewish figures and....indeed, they are even...rather comically, to be found on the far or dissident right. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 2.26pm) I’ve often wondered how true this is considering the professional and financial success and voting constituencies of many British Jewish citizens and behind a lot of the envy and resentment (today in the Labour Party). (And I put that down to family structure, encouragement and bossy mothers) Obviously all aren’t the same and I remember Jewish Vanessa Feltz saying something derogatory about ‘city Jews’ after classifying her fellow Jews into 3 or 5 different groups. But you don’t see many poor Jews and over time society has voted according to its socio economic group rather than freedoms, self determination (overlapping I know). Well that’s how it feels when it comes down to polling day. How much it costs the voter. Also possibly some pulling the drawbridge up when it comes to offering help further afield? Edited by Rudi Hedman (26 Nov 2019 2.40pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 26 Nov 19 2.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You wrote an excellent post and on this point I'd agree with you on assimilation (up to a point). I view Jews as a positive.

However, they are a majority voting block for the left....it's just statistically true and has been true since the world wars.

Though we all know of right wing Jewish figures and....indeed, they are even...rather comically, to be found on the far or dissident right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 2.26pm)

I’ve often wondered how true this is considering the professional and financial success and voting constituencies of many British Jewish citizens and behind a lot of the envy and resentment (today in the Labour Party). (And I put that down to family structure, encouragement and bossy mothers)

Obviously all aren’t the same and I remember Jewish Vanessa Feltz saying something derogatory about ‘city Jews’ after classifying her fellow Jews into 3 or 5 different groups. But you don’t see many poor Jews and over time society has voted according to its socio economic group rather than freedoms, self determination (overlapping I know). Well that’s how it feels when it comes down to polling day. How much it costs the voter.

Also possibly some pulling the drawbridge up when it comes to offering help further afield?

Edited by Rudi Hedman (26 Nov 2019 2.40pm)

COYP

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SpyroCrystal 26 Nov 19 2.48pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yep, I'd agree with the long term criticism if Democracy. I was just saying that Democracy or this form of it, like all systems, will itself eventually fall and be replaced. I was making a wider philosophical point. Fair play. Democracy is eroding all forms of values people have and will eventually be replaced by some super tyranical system, but it all stems from Democracy and yet so many left and right groups keep defending it sadly : ( Big up the Palace!!!!
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SpyroCrystal 26 Nov 19 2.48pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep, I'd agree with the long term criticism if Democracy. I was just saying that Democracy or this form of it, like all systems, will itself eventually fall and be replaced.

I was making a wider philosophical point.

Fair play. Democracy is eroding all forms of values people have and will eventually be replaced by some super tyranical system, but it all stems from Democracy and yet so many left and right groups keep defending it sadly : (

Big up the Palace!!!!

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chris123 hove actually 26 Nov 19 2.53pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The greatest irony is that this Corbyn Labour Party has been rejected by Jewish interests, the Jews being the very people who probably influenced most, post war, Left wing policy on race and religious issues and the Right wing bad mantra. For those of us who have warned against the scourge identity politics, it is a double edged sword. It is hilarious to see Labour being the victim of an environment that it helped create, but at the same time, it is depressing to see how much minority interests and identity are already playing a part in British politics. The Labour response? An initiative on race and faith and accuse the Tories of 'Islamophobia'. 'God' help us. And if you don't listen to the Chief Rabbi, I'm not sure who you do listen to.
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chris123

hove actually 26 Nov 19 2.53pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The greatest irony is that this Corbyn Labour Party has been rejected by Jewish interests, the Jews being the very people who probably influenced most, post war, Left wing policy on race and religious issues and the Right wing bad mantra.

For those of us who have warned against the scourge identity politics, it is a double edged sword. It is hilarious to see Labour being the victim of an environment that it helped create, but at the same time, it is depressing to see how much minority interests and identity are already playing a part in British politics.

The Labour response? An initiative on race and faith and accuse the Tories of 'Islamophobia'.

'God' help us.

And if you don't listen to the Chief Rabbi, I'm not sure who you do listen to.

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Stirlingsays 26 Nov 19 2.57pm
Originally posted by SpyroCrystal Fair play. Democracy is eroding all forms of values people have and will eventually be replaced by some super tyranical system, but it all stems from Democracy and yet so many left and right groups keep defending it sadly : ( Some think we are heading towards a Corporatocracy.....I see the danger of that but I reckon we are heading towards socialism....which will limit corporations. Demographic change will drive it and do gooders will be the Turkeys voting for Christmas thinking....like the Russian sailors in 1917....that they will be fine. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 2.58pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Nov 19 2.57pm

Originally posted by SpyroCrystal

Some think we are heading towards a Corporatocracy.....I see the danger of that but I reckon we are heading towards socialism....which will limit corporations.

Demographic change will drive it and do gooders will be the Turkeys voting for Christmas thinking....like the Russian sailors in 1917....that they will be fine.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 2.58pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Nov 19 3.07pm
Originally posted by chris123 And if you don't listen to the Chief Rabbi, I'm not sure who you do listen to. It's the hypocrisy of claiming the moral high ground and then taking sides with terrorist and anti Jewish groups. It just highlights the absurdity of identity politics and the cynical nature of the Corbyn's far left Labour. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (26 Nov 2019 3.08pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Nov 19 3.07pm

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Originally posted by chris123

And if you don't listen to the Chief Rabbi, I'm not sure who you do listen to.

It's the hypocrisy of claiming the moral high ground and then taking sides with terrorist and anti Jewish groups.

It just highlights the absurdity of identity politics and the cynical nature of the Corbyn's far left Labour.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (26 Nov 2019 3.08pm)

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SpyroCrystal 26 Nov 19 3.13pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Some think we are heading towards a Corporatocracy.....I see the danger of that but I reckon we are heading towards socialism....which will limit corporations. Demographic change will drive it and do gooders will be the Turkeys voting for Christmas thinking....like the Russian sailors in 1917....that they will be fine. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 2.58pm) Karl Marx is said to have said democracy leads to socialism... enjoy these days as the decades ahead are going to be worse and worse sadly Big up the Palace!!!!
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SpyroCrystal 26 Nov 19 3.13pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Some think we are heading towards a Corporatocracy.....I see the danger of that but I reckon we are heading towards socialism....which will limit corporations.

Demographic change will drive it and do gooders will be the Turkeys voting for Christmas thinking....like the Russian sailors in 1917....that they will be fine.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 2.58pm)

Karl Marx is said to have said democracy leads to socialism...
enjoy these days as the decades ahead are going to be worse and worse sadly

Big up the Palace!!!!

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Matov 26 Nov 19 3.20pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman What’s this defrauding of our VAT system for billions? The scam is a relatively simple one involving exporting goods and claiming back the VAT. Except the goods either do not exist or else the same ones are being channeled back into the system time and time again. This is a recent report on it from the Sunday Times. Sorry if it is behind a paywall but I am sure you can access it from other sources... [Link] "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Nov 19 3.20pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

What’s this defrauding of our VAT system for billions?

The scam is a relatively simple one involving exporting goods and claiming back the VAT. Except the goods either do not exist or else the same ones are being channeled back into the system time and time again.

This is a recent report on it from the Sunday Times. Sorry if it is behind a paywall but I am sure you can access it from other sources...

[Link]

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 26 Nov 19 3.35pm
Originally posted by Matov The scam is a relatively simple one involving exporting goods and claiming back the VAT. Except the goods either do not exist or else the same ones are being channeled back into the system time and time again. This is a recent report on it from the Sunday Times. Sorry if it is behind a paywall but I am sure you can access it from other sources... [Link] Thanks. Partly what I expected. Al Qaeda also would’ve placed trades before 9/11 and 7/7 but with untraceable links. But this vat scam in Britain is again an outrageous decision to leave a selected group carry on while other groups are investigated. Should be unbelievable but not surprised. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 26 Nov 19 3.35pm

Originally posted by Matov

This is a recent report on it from the Sunday Times. Sorry if it is behind a paywall but I am sure you can access it from other sources...

[Link]

Thanks. Partly what I expected. Al Qaeda also would’ve placed trades before 9/11 and 7/7 but with untraceable links. But this vat scam in Britain is again an outrageous decision to leave a selected group carry on while other groups are investigated. Should be unbelievable but not surprised.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 26 Nov 19 4.25pm
Originally posted by SpyroCrystal Karl Marx is said to have said democracy leads to socialism... enjoy these days as the decades ahead are going to be worse and worse sadly I know that Lenin said that socialism leads to communism. Ultimately though I can't say that Marx or Lenin were wrong on this.......All systems are eventually over-turned via generational and/or demographical change. The only way to avoid it is via severe oppression....as you see in China and the Middle East....but eventually the above realities will even do for that. While the universe exists the only certainty is change. That said, fight for the society you believe in....As that's the one your children will live in.....and then it's their job to work to maintain or change that. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 4.43pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Nov 19 4.25pm

Originally posted by SpyroCrystal

Karl Marx is said to have said democracy leads to socialism...
enjoy these days as the decades ahead are going to be worse and worse sadly

I know that Lenin said that socialism leads to communism.

Ultimately though I can't say that Marx or Lenin were wrong on this.......All systems are eventually over-turned via generational and/or demographical change.

The only way to avoid it is via severe oppression....as you see in China and the Middle East....but eventually the above realities will even do for that.

While the universe exists the only certainty is change.

That said, fight for the society you believe in....As that's the one your children will live in.....and then it's their job to work to maintain or change that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Nov 2019 4.43pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov 26 Nov 19 4.55pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Thanks. Partly what I expected. Al Qaeda also would’ve placed trades before 9/11 and 7/7 but with untraceable links. But this vat scam in Britain is again an outrageous decision to leave a selected group carry on while other groups are investigated. Should be unbelievable but not surprised. The quote from the Customs officer about how the names are being protected, even after jail terms have been served is extraordinary. And this is real strategic harm to the well-being of the UK. The opposite side of the coin to the grooming scandal but both driven by the same hysteria around accusations of racism. Our public services are effectively held hostage to this socially liberal orthodoxy and genuine damage is being done to UK society. And it is accross the entire system. Yes, Labour are the ones most proactive in protecting these organised criminal gangs for their own electoral gain but the Tories are also remarkably quiet on it. The entire system needs pulling down. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Nov 19 4.55pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

The quote from the Customs officer about how the names are being protected, even after jail terms have been served is extraordinary. And this is real strategic harm to the well-being of the UK. The opposite side of the coin to the grooming scandal but both driven by the same hysteria around accusations of racism. Our public services are effectively held hostage to this socially liberal orthodoxy and genuine damage is being done to UK society.

And it is accross the entire system. Yes, Labour are the ones most proactive in protecting these organised criminal gangs for their own electoral gain but the Tories are also remarkably quiet on it.

The entire system needs pulling down.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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johnno42000 26 Nov 19 6.50pm
A glimpse of the future from the past? [Link] also a really good series. 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'
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johnno42000

26 Nov 19 6.50pm

A glimpse of the future from the past?

[Link]

also a really good series.

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 26 Nov 19 7.30pm
Corbyn answering Andrew Neil on how he’d pay for the WASPI pensions is embarrassing for Labour. As bad as it gets. ‘Where will you get the money on top of the borrowing we’ve just spoken about?’ ‘It’ll be paid for with govt reserves.’ ‘We don’t have any’ Repeat at least 5 or more times. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 26 Nov 19 7.30pm

Corbyn answering Andrew Neil on how he’d pay for the WASPI pensions is embarrassing for Labour. As bad as it gets.

‘Where will you get the money on top of the borrowing we’ve just spoken about?’

‘It’ll be paid for with govt reserves.’

‘We don’t have any’

Repeat at least 5 or more times.

COYP

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