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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 6.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It might poop on your parade, but actually he didn't. You might like to read this:- These are general guidelines about candour, but they also cover a worker's right to speak out. "you do not try to prevent employees or former employees raising concerns about patient safety – for example, you must not propose or condone contracts or agreements that seek to restrict or remove the contractor’s freedom to disclose information relevant to their concerns". So if a health care worker justifies their speaking out by saying they are concerned of the consequences for their patients (and what other reason would they have) then they are free to do so. Are you so narcissistic that you think people are that stupid? Also, I distinctly remember him saying something to that effect in the video. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 6.48pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 6.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah, but the mainstream use the word, 'expert' and you're just meant to accept that what is being delivered meets that standard. It's the argument from authority fallacy. No they don't. They mean suitably qualified. Which I would rather trust than someone who isn't. Which is often who the unedited media claim are experts. So do you. Even experts make wrong predictions. That's the thing with predictions. You only know if they are accurate later. When the press then concentrate on worst case scenarios, and write them up to suggest they are the inevitable outcome, then we do have a problem, but that's not the expert's fault.
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Teddy Eagle 11 Dec 21 6.52pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Well done. Now look up the rates for fully vaccinated, which I quoted earlier. Why? Don’t they agree?
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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 6.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No they don't. They mean suitably qualified. Which I would rather trust than someone who isn't. Which is often who the unedited media claim are experts. So do you. Even experts make wrong predictions. That's the thing with predictions. You only know if they are accurate later. When the press then concentrate on worst case scenarios, and write them up to suggest they are the inevitable outcome, then we do have a problem, but that's not the expert's fault. 'Unedited media'. Classic. As for the rest of your post it's just your usual apologist tripe.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 7.05pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Are you so narcissistic that you think people are that stupid? Also, I distinctly remember him saying something to that effect in the video. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 6.48pm) In what way do you think I think people are stupid? I quoted a passage from the guidelines. They are in the link I provided. Find it for yourself if you don't believe me. If your retired clinician made an error in his understanding of what people can do, that's OK. Everyone makes mistakes and aren't experts in every field. As he has proved. People are protected from disciplinary procedures if they reveal concerns. There are also carefully structured pathways, and encouragement, to bring all concerns to the attention of management. My wife, and her colleagues, are all required to be managers, bring all concerns into the daylight and not to take no for an answer. Their patient's interests are to be regarded as paramount at all times. Speaking out is not an option. It is a requirement.
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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 7.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
In what way do you think I think people are stupid? I quoted a passage from the guidelines. They are in the link I provided. Find it for yourself if you don't believe me. If your retired clinician made an error in his understanding of what people can do, that's OK. Everyone makes mistakes and aren't experts in every field. As he has proved. People are protected from disciplinary procedures if they reveal concerns. There are also carefully structured pathways, and encouragement, to bring all concerns to the attention of management. My wife, and her colleagues, are all required to be managers, bring all concerns into the daylight and not to take no for an answer. Their patient's interests are to be regarded as paramount at all times. Speaking out is not an option. It is a requirement. I think I'll take his 30 years in the NHS, which no doubt involved many contracts over your say so. The sense in which you seem to think people are stupid is that all honest people know the reality of what happens to staff who talk against their employers positions.....that's far more real than warm worded 'guidance' that can be interpreted any which way, any day of the weak.
Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 7.12pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 7.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Unedited media'. Classic. As for the rest of your post it's just your usual apologist tripe. It's the polite way of describing the disparate bunch of the self-opinionated, self-obsessed and conspiracy theorists who fill the alternative media with their nonsense, unchecked by editors or lawyers. That you prefer their rants to the analysis of proper journalists, who have access to researchers and official sources, and whose output is carefully checked for accuracy, and reviewed by lawyers before publication, speaks volumes. Opinions are like ars*holes. We all have one. It's just such a pity that so many ars*holes are able to circulate their opinions so freely these days.
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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 7.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's the polite way of describing the disparate bunch of the self-opinionated, self-obsessed and conspiracy theorists who fill the alternative media with their nonsense, unchecked by editors or lawyers. That you prefer their rants to the analysis of proper journalists, who have access to researchers and official sources, and whose output is carefully checked for accuracy, and reviewed by lawyers before publication, speaks volumes. Opinions are like ars*holes. We all have one. It's just such a pity that so many ars*holes are able to circulate their opinions so freely these days. Yeah, editors or lawyers are the very hallmark...the very zenith of truth and honesty aren't they......not. You're are so elitist and corporate that you should check your arse for a watermark. While it's true that alt media is no guarantee of truth.....a major difference is that by the very nature of its independence you aren't going to get the 'approved line'....on how the mainstream want you to think. And history has shown that....if you're discerning....that access to something nearer the truth is far more likely that way. The mainstream is about what they want you to think....truth is incidental. There are so many examples, so many parallels....look at the Wall Street crash and how that was initially reported.... Look at the war in Afghanistan....the media and government were lying about how that war was going for years...decades....Yet the truth came from the troops on the ground who were saying a very different story......but that wasn't transmitted to the mainstream. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 7.31pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 7.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I think I'll take his 30 years in the NHS, which no doubt involved many contracts over your say so. The sense in which you seem to think people are stupid is that all honest people know the reality of what happens to staff who talk against their employers positions.....that's far more real than warm worded 'guidance' that can be interpreted any which way, any day of the weak.
Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 7.12pm) I know someone who has worked for over 30 years in the NHS. Would you like me to put you in touch, so you can get her opinion on the way to manage the pandemic? She makes sandwiches in the canteen on the weekends. It's a vital position for which she is well skilled and super experienced. You THINK you know what happens to people who speak out. Perhaps that has been the culture in some places in the past, but not in today's NHS. Any manager, or Trust, seeking to discipline anyone for speaking their mind would immediately run into a huge heap of trouble. Should there be even the merest hint of their career path being blocked, those responsible would quickly find theirs in free-fall. The reverse is true. Raising a concern and trying to get it discussed and things improved would add to your CV. That is actively encouraged at every level. That things have been covered up in the past is something they are determined to eradicate.
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georgenorman 11 Dec 21 7.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Nope. ‘We could expect’ is not what was said. Ok, latch on to some precise wording while ignoring the general point if it makes you feel better.
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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 7.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I know someone who has worked for over 30 years in the NHS. Would you like me to put you in touch, so you can get her opinion on the way to manage the pandemic? She makes sandwiches in the canteen on the weekends. It's a vital position for which she is well skilled and super experienced. You THINK you know what happens to people who speak out. Perhaps that has been the culture in some places in the past, but not in today's NHS. Any manager, or Trust, seeking to discipline anyone for speaking their mind would immediately run into a huge heap of trouble. Should there be even the merest hint of their career path being blocked, those responsible would quickly find theirs in free-fall. The reverse is true. Raising a concern and trying to get it discussed and things improved would add to your CV. That is actively encouraged at every level. That things have been covered up in the past is something they are determined to eradicate. Blimey..Really? What utter tripe.....you're so full of the brown stuff..that the number of corks up your arse could refloat the Titanic.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 7.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah, editors or lawyers are the very hallmark...the very zenith of truth and honesty aren't they......not. You're are so elitist and corporate that you should check your arse for a watermark. While it's true that alt media is no guarantee of truth.....a major difference is that by the very nature of its independence you aren't going to get the 'approved line'....on how the mainstream want you to think. And history has shown that....if you're discerning....that access to something nearer the truth is far more likely that way. The mainstream is about what they want you to think....truth is incidental. There are so many examples, so many parallels....look at the Wall Street crash and how that was initially reported.... Look at the war in Afghanistan....the media and government were lying about how that war was going for years...decades....Yet the truth came from the troops on the ground who were saying a very different story......but that wasn't transmitted to the mainstream. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 7.31pm) That the MSM have positions and spin stories is totally different to inventing things, which is often all you get on the "alt-media". The editors will check that the direction of the story is in line with its position. The lawyers will ensure no-one is libelled or defamatory claims made that will cost them. No such controls exist in the "alt-media", where completely unsubstantiated claims get made without any comebacks. You write as though the MSM is one homogeneous group, but it just isn't. Look at the Mail, Sun and Telegraph and compare it with the Guardian or Indy. Compare Fox with almost anything else. Some, of course, are free of proprietorial influence. The public service broadcasters are where I go to get my information. You, of course, with your prejudices, believe they are biased. They aren't. I could argue with you long and hard over your opinion about the reporting on Wall St, and in particular on Afghanistan, where I believe that your opinion (which I accept is now a commonly held one) to be wrong. It's a very complicated issue, which I am not going to get diverted into, but suffice to say I believe Blair has been given a very unfair press over this. Of course, the troops on the ground told a different story. They were at the sharp edge and neither in the UN, nor in Whitehall or the security forces advising them.
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