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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 1.53pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops Yes, for the next week or so caution is required, however yours is a war time type mentality and it should not apply here. There will always be objectors with very valid grounds for non conformity and they should not be punished based on the small risk they pose as a result of their non conformity. You can call them idiots, selfish or whatever but the decision is theirs to make and punishing them for that decision is a very slippery slope to follow for a government and would almost certainly breach their human rights. You summed it up when you said in an earlier post that you are better leading the horse to water rather than forcing them to drink. There is a war, but this is but one battle among many. Many battles start with a hard push, to be followed by a tactical retreat. Which is what I suspect will happen here. That you continue to put individual choice above the need to protect the NHS is unfortunate and thoroughly justifies the accusation of selfishness. There is NOT a small risk. The risk of overwhelming the NHS is very real. I don't think mandatory vaccination will happen. I am in favour of social pressure backed up by restrictions. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 1.53pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Yes, for the next week or so caution is required, however yours is a war time type mentality and it should not apply here. There will always be objectors with very valid grounds for non conformity and they should not be punished based on the small risk they pose as a result of their non conformity.

You can call them idiots, selfish or whatever but the decision is theirs to make and punishing them for that decision is a very slippery slope to follow for a government and would almost certainly breach their human rights.

You summed it up when you said in an earlier post that you are better leading the horse to water rather than forcing them to drink.

There is a war, but this is but one battle among many. Many battles start with a hard push, to be followed by a tactical retreat. Which is what I suspect will happen here.

That you continue to put individual choice above the need to protect the NHS is unfortunate and thoroughly justifies the accusation of selfishness. There is NOT a small risk. The risk of overwhelming the NHS is very real.

I don't think mandatory vaccination will happen. I am in favour of social pressure backed up by restrictions.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Mapletree Croydon 11 Dec 21 1.55pm
Originally posted by Bobby216 This might be an iteresting link for some of you. A doctor with extensive experience in pathology talking very reasonably about the government over reaction to covid19. There's a clip where Boris and Jenny Harries talk about mask wearing being potentially more problematic for disease transmission, discouraging people to wear masks. Ofcourse they later changed their narative on masks, but with no new evidence to back it up. There has been any conclusive evidence to back up mask wearing. The video was made some months ago, but still very relevant. Dr John Lee. He created HART which is a group of highly qualified scientists abd professionals that have real concerns about the unintended consequences of these government policies. [Link] [Link] The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. Given the current shortages of medical masks, we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies. [Link] Prior to the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, the efficacy of community mask wearing to reduce the spread of respiratory infections was controversial because there were no solid relevant data to support their use. During the pandemic, the scientific evidence has increased. Compelling data now demonstrate that community mask wearing is an effective nonpharmacologic intervention to reduce the spread of this infection, especially as source control to prevent spread from infected persons, but also as protection to reduce wearers’ exposure to infection. [Link] In their paper on self-reported face mask wearing and control of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission in the US, Rader and colleagues1 showed an elegant ecological analysis of data from across the US, estimating the effect of face mask use on the transmission of COVID-19 infection. The authors made use of online survey responses of mask usage from thousands of individuals across the country over time to measure the relationship between mask wearing and community transmission control, as characterised by the instantaneous reproductive number. Based on 378 207 responses, an increase in community transmission control with increasing face mask usage was found, which remains after accounting for other differences across the country, such as mobility, and control is enhanced when mask wearing is combined with physical distancing. Rader and colleagues support an increasingly convincing body of evidence that speaks to the importance of mask wearing to mitigate ongoing waves of transmission as vaccines begin to be rolled out. [Link] Who you going to trust?
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Mapletree

Croydon 11 Dec 21 1.55pm

Originally posted by Bobby216

This might be an iteresting link for some of you. A doctor with extensive experience in pathology talking very reasonably about the government over reaction to covid19. There's a clip where Boris and Jenny Harries talk about mask wearing being potentially more problematic for disease transmission, discouraging people to wear masks. Ofcourse they later changed their narative on masks, but with no new evidence to back it up. There has been any conclusive evidence to back up mask wearing. The video was made some months ago, but still very relevant. Dr John Lee. He created HART which is a group of highly qualified scientists abd professionals that have real concerns about the unintended consequences of these government policies.

[Link]

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. Given the current shortages of medical masks, we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies.
[Link]

Prior to the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, the efficacy of community mask wearing to reduce the spread of respiratory infections was controversial because there were no solid relevant data to support their use. During the pandemic, the scientific evidence has increased. Compelling data now demonstrate that community mask wearing is an effective nonpharmacologic intervention to reduce the spread of this infection, especially as source control to prevent spread from infected persons, but also as protection to reduce wearers’ exposure to infection.
[Link]

In their paper on self-reported face mask wearing and control of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission in the US, Rader and colleagues1 showed an elegant ecological analysis of data from across the US, estimating the effect of face mask use on the transmission of COVID-19 infection. The authors made use of online survey responses of mask usage from thousands of individuals across the country over time to measure the relationship between mask wearing and community transmission control, as characterised by the instantaneous reproductive number. Based on 378 207 responses, an increase in community transmission control with increasing face mask usage was found, which remains after accounting for other differences across the country, such as mobility, and control is enhanced when mask wearing is combined with physical distancing. Rader and colleagues support an increasingly convincing body of evidence that speaks to the importance of mask wearing to mitigate ongoing waves of transmission as vaccines begin to be rolled out.
[Link]

Who you going to trust?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 2.03pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle The WHO says current vaccines should work against Omicron. [Link] I know. It also says it is much more transmissible. So the unvaccinated are at a significantly higher risk of contracting it. Even if it proves to be milder in its impact, as is being forecast, that could be a huge number of infections at the same time, some of which will require hospitalisation. Which is why getting vaccinated is being so heavily promoted. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 2.03pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

The WHO says current vaccines should work against Omicron.

[Link]

I know. It also says it is much more transmissible. So the unvaccinated are at a significantly higher risk of contracting it.

Even if it proves to be milder in its impact, as is being forecast, that could be a huge number of infections at the same time, some of which will require hospitalisation.

Which is why getting vaccinated is being so heavily promoted.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 11 Dec 21 2.03pm
Masks are effective. And even more so, in conjunction with distancing and hand-washing. I am fed up that the maskless idiots are now out shopping in such numbers, it makes policing idiots in shops nigh-impossible. I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 11 Dec 21 2.03pm

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Masks are effective. And even more so, in conjunction with distancing and hand-washing.
I am fed up that the maskless idiots are now out shopping in such numbers, it makes policing idiots in shops nigh-impossible.

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 11 Dec 21 2.08pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I know. It also says it is much more transmissible. So the unvaccinated are at a significantly higher risk of contracting it. Even if it proves to be milder in its impact, as is being forecast, that could be a huge number of infections at the same time, some of which will require hospitalisation. Which is why getting vaccinated is being so heavily promoted. The NHS is already under pressure playing catch-up with patients now being treated for non-covid illnesses. More hospitalisations with Covid seems to be where the UK is headed, putting the NHS under massive strain. I might have to go out on my doorstep on Fridays to give NHS staff a 1 minute clap. Because it's better to be appreciated than be paid what you are actually worth,.. I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 11 Dec 21 2.08pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I know. It also says it is much more transmissible. So the unvaccinated are at a significantly higher risk of contracting it.

Even if it proves to be milder in its impact, as is being forecast, that could be a huge number of infections at the same time, some of which will require hospitalisation.

Which is why getting vaccinated is being so heavily promoted.

The NHS is already under pressure playing catch-up with patients now being treated for non-covid illnesses.
More hospitalisations with Covid seems to be where the UK is headed, putting the NHS under massive strain.

I might have to go out on my doorstep on Fridays to give NHS staff a 1 minute clap. Because it's better to be appreciated than be paid what you are actually worth,..

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 2.12pm
Originally posted by eaglesdare It's mad how most people are pro choice yet they are the first ones to tell you what to do with your body! "My body my choice" until it isint! In terms of the new variant evading the vaccine....of course that would happen! Virus needs to live so they mutate to survive! Most people got vaccinated so they can get their lives back! They don't really care about it! But now even with being vaccinated they have restrictions and lock downs! I just can't wait for the penny to drop for some people and realise it's all a load of s***e now! When "what you do with your body" impacts everyone else then, of course, they have an interest, indeed even a stake, in it. To conflate it with the "my choice" concept is nonsense. I too can't wait for the penny to drop that this isn't all about you. It's about everyone and your responsibilities to them. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 2.12pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

It's mad how most people are pro choice yet they are the first ones to tell you what to do with your body!

"My body my choice" until it isint!

In terms of the new variant evading the vaccine....of course that would happen! Virus needs to live so they mutate to survive!

Most people got vaccinated so they can get their lives back! They don't really care about it! But now even with being vaccinated they have restrictions and lock downs!

I just can't wait for the penny to drop for some people and realise it's all a load of s***e now!

When "what you do with your body" impacts everyone else then, of course, they have an interest, indeed even a stake, in it. To conflate it with the "my choice" concept is nonsense.

I too can't wait for the penny to drop that this isn't all about you. It's about everyone and your responsibilities to them.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 2.18pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You are ridiculous, utterly ridiculous. The inability of the NHS to function is entirely down to the fear mongering job that the government and people like you have abetted. You created the very situation you complain about....and then you finger point at people like me...who never made mountains out of viruses because they have always been there. I only want to make my own healthcare choices....you're that type who starts off with 'exclusion' and then moves on to the next phrase....like all authoritarians you will find words to justify any old b0llocks. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 2.00pm) I would love to see you go into the The QE Hospital in Kings Lynn and address the HCP's there with that statement. You might end up being lynched. And then resuscitated, because that's what they do. They help everyone. Even people like you. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Dec 21 2.18pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You are ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

The inability of the NHS to function is entirely down to the fear mongering job that the government and people like you have abetted.

You created the very situation you complain about....and then you finger point at people like me...who never made mountains out of viruses because they have always been there.

I only want to make my own healthcare choices....you're that type who starts off with 'exclusion' and then moves on to the next phrase....like all authoritarians you will find words to justify any old b0llocks.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 2.00pm)

I would love to see you go into the The QE Hospital in Kings Lynn and address the HCP's there with that statement.

You might end up being lynched. And then resuscitated, because that's what they do. They help everyone. Even people like you.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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georgenorman 11 Dec 21 2.21pm
Originally posted by georgenorman .
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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 2.23pm
Part of the reason the NHS is under massive strain is due to the fear mongering that has created its staffing crises. Turns out that if you try to put the fear of god into people it also affects the public sector. I know this for a fact, through a personal contact that staffing levels have been significantly affected. The very people pointing at others are in fact partly responsible for creating the situation. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 Dec 21 2.23pm

Part of the reason the NHS is under massive strain is due to the fear mongering that has created its staffing crises.

Turns out that if you try to put the fear of god into people it also affects the public sector. I know this for a fact, through a personal contact that staffing levels have been significantly affected.

The very people pointing at others are in fact partly responsible for creating the situation.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 2.26pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would love to see you go into the The QE Hospital in Kings Lynn and address the HCP's there with that statement. You might end up being lynched. And then resuscitated, because that's what they do. They help everyone. Even people like you. Even when you are linked to medical staff saying the opposite to you we still get the claim that everyone thinks like WE. The reality is that....just as that surgeon said, there is a significant division of opinion....especially the higher up you get....the phd evidence is there if you were bothered to look. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 2.51pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 Dec 21 2.26pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I would love to see you go into the The QE Hospital in Kings Lynn and address the HCP's there with that statement.

You might end up being lynched. And then resuscitated, because that's what they do. They help everyone. Even people like you.

Even when you are linked to medical staff saying the opposite to you we still get the claim that everyone thinks like WE.

The reality is that....just as that surgeon said, there is a significant division of opinion....especially the higher up you get....the phd evidence is there if you were bothered to look.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 2.51pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Croydon 11 Dec 21 2.31pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Even when you are linked to medical staff saying the opposite to you we still get the claim that everything thinks like WE. The reality is that....just as that surgeon said, there is a significant division of opinion....especially the higher up you get....the phd evidence is there if you were bothered to look. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 2.27pm) You aren't banging on again about a retired ENT specialist surely. Groan.
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Mapletree

Croydon 11 Dec 21 2.31pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Even when you are linked to medical staff saying the opposite to you we still get the claim that everything thinks like WE.

The reality is that....just as that surgeon said, there is a significant division of opinion....especially the higher up you get....the phd evidence is there if you were bothered to look.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2021 2.27pm)

You aren't banging on again about a retired ENT specialist surely. Groan.

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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 21 2.33pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would love to see you go into the The QE Hospital in Kings Lynn and address the HCP's there with that statement. You might end up being lynched. And then resuscitated, because that's what they do. They help everyone. Even people like you. While I respect all public workers and was one myself....that's their job. I educated the kid I didn't like as well.....Did I expect a round of applause for it? Wally. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 Dec 21 2.33pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I would love to see you go into the The QE Hospital in Kings Lynn and address the HCP's there with that statement.

You might end up being lynched. And then resuscitated, because that's what they do. They help everyone. Even people like you.

While I respect all public workers and was one myself....that's their job.

I educated the kid I didn't like as well.....Did I expect a round of applause for it?

Wally.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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