Covid vaccine

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Covid vaccine

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BlueJay UK 18 May 21 3.38pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin I note that Andy Burnham is insisting that the government do more vaccinating to sort out the Indian variant in his area - why didn't he just tell his constituents to have the vaccine in the first place! Nearly everyone now hospitalised in his area have not had the vaccine when they could have done. Make me sick when people in charge won't blame the people causing the bloody problem! I agree to a point. He has a degree of influence, and there's no point intentionally taking a backseat and waiting for the government to mess up only to point the finger. That's the trouble with politics, the average politician take greater satisfaction from their opposites messing up than they do actually helping communities and the country. It's not really party specific, but is a sad state of affairs.
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BlueJay

UK 18 May 21 3.38pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

I note that Andy Burnham is insisting that the government do more vaccinating to sort out the Indian variant in his area - why didn't he just tell his constituents to have the vaccine in the first place!
Nearly everyone now hospitalised in his area have not had the vaccine when they could have done.
Make me sick when people in charge won't blame the people causing the bloody problem!

I agree to a point. He has a degree of influence, and there's no point intentionally taking a backseat and waiting for the government to mess up only to point the finger. That's the trouble with politics, the average politician take greater satisfaction from their opposites messing up than they do actually helping communities and the country. It's not really party specific, but is a sad state of affairs.

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BlueJay UK 18 May 21 3.43pm
On a less depressing note, at least there is 'some' reason to believe that the vaccine is fairly effective against this variant. We'll no doubt he getting further clarification on that one way or the other over coming weeks. It looks set to become the dominant strain, and easier to spread so the more people that are vaccinated the better. Logically that may well keep numbers down somewhat.
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BlueJay

UK 18 May 21 3.43pm

On a less depressing note, at least there is 'some' reason to believe that the vaccine is fairly effective against this variant. We'll no doubt he getting further clarification on that one way or the other over coming weeks. It looks set to become the dominant strain, and easier to spread so the more people that are vaccinated the better. Logically that may well keep numbers down somewhat.

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jeeagles 18 May 21 4.00pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin I note that Andy Burnham is insisting that the government do more vaccinating to sort out the Indian variant in his area - why didn't he just tell his constituents to have the vaccine in the first place! Nearly everyone now hospitalised in his area have not had the vaccine when they could have done. Make me sick when people in charge won't blame the people causing the bloody problem! Just had my vaccine. Very efficient system with little bureaucracy. The logistics must have been sorted by the armed services as there is no way the NHS/Civil Service/local authority would role out as system with that much attention to detail in the process without stuffing it full of middle management. A great example of what Britain can achieve if we don't settle for mediocrity. The purpose of lockdown was to protect the NHS in order to prevent people dying simply because they wouldn't have been able to gain access to medical help. Medical help has now been provided for everyone. The most at risk group is now overweight people who have neglected their health for decades, and now refuse a medical intervention that can protect them. Healthy people won't tolerate the loss of their civil liberties for people like that. Unfortunately, a free "at the point of service" health care system means a minority of people don't take accountability for looking after there own health. Hopefully, this will change that.
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jeeagles

18 May 21 4.00pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Just had my vaccine. Very efficient system with little bureaucracy. The logistics must have been sorted by the armed services as there is no way the NHS/Civil Service/local authority would role out as system with that much attention to detail in the process without stuffing it full of middle management. A great example of what Britain can achieve if we don't settle for mediocrity.

The purpose of lockdown was to protect the NHS in order to prevent people dying simply because they wouldn't have been able to gain access to medical help.

Medical help has now been provided for everyone.

The most at risk group is now overweight people who have neglected their health for decades, and now refuse a medical intervention that can protect them.

Healthy people won't tolerate the loss of their civil liberties for people like that.

Unfortunately, a free "at the point of service" health care system means a minority of people don't take accountability for looking after there own health. Hopefully, this will change that.

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Spiderman Horsham 18 May 21 4.12pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 Well, these people clearly didn't have the required residency documentation ready by the end of 2020 and many of them would have been in Spain already for quite some time, typically years. They need to have TIE cards which are the official document of residency in Spain. The same type of complacency has occurred in Cyprus with some living there for up to 30 years without registering as an official resident. The same people then complained and moaned that they were being discriminated against when they had to go through the process of becoming official residents or having to leave due to brexit, who many of which had voted for. These are idiots who think the rules only apply to others and not themselves because the British should be treated differently for some reason. Countries applying their sovereignty and taking control of their borders, that's all. Freedom of movement was one of the benefits that many of these people voted to give up, so they can't complain when this now also applies to them. Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 2.20pm) They were tourists! Last time I looked tourists didn’t need residence documents. Frontier workers have all required documents to travel freely around Europe. Perhaps your out of your depth on this one? Still if it suits your anti- Brexit stance, you carry on! Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 4.15pm)
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Spiderman

Horsham 18 May 21 4.12pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

Well, these people clearly didn't have the required residency documentation ready by the end of 2020 and many of them would have been in Spain already for quite some time, typically years. They need to have TIE cards which are the official document of residency in Spain. The same type of complacency has occurred in Cyprus with some living there for up to 30 years without registering as an official resident. The same people then complained and moaned that they were being discriminated against when they had to go through the process of becoming official residents or having to leave due to brexit, who many of which had voted for. These are idiots who think the rules only apply to others and not themselves because the British should be treated differently for some reason. Countries applying their sovereignty and taking control of their borders, that's all. Freedom of movement was one of the benefits that many of these people voted to give up, so they can't complain when this now also applies to them.

Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 2.20pm)

They were tourists! Last time I looked tourists didn’t need residence documents. Frontier workers have all required documents to travel freely around Europe. Perhaps your out of your depth on this one? Still if it suits your anti- Brexit stance, you carry on!

Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 4.15pm)

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Badger11 Beckenham 18 May 21 4.37pm
Originally posted by BlueJay On a less depressing note, at least there is 'some' reason to believe that the vaccine is fairly effective against this variant. We'll no doubt he getting further clarification on that one way or the other over coming weeks. It looks set to become the dominant strain, and easier to spread so the more people that are vaccinated the better. Logically that may well keep numbers down somewhat. I think Burnham is correct about speeding up the vaccine rollout. The best way to stop this spreading and possibly morphing into something else is to vaccinate as many people as possible. The 18-35 group is most at risk now because they haven't been offered it and they are the most likely to mix indoors e.g. pubs and nightclubs. The quicker everyone has been offered the jab the better. After that the refusniks are on their own. Edited by Badger11 (18 May 2021 4.38pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 18 May 21 4.37pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

I think Burnham is correct about speeding up the vaccine rollout.

The best way to stop this spreading and possibly morphing into something else is to vaccinate as many people as possible.

The 18-35 group is most at risk now because they haven't been offered it and they are the most likely to mix indoors e.g. pubs and nightclubs.

The quicker everyone has been offered the jab the better. After that the refusniks are on their own.

Edited by Badger11 (18 May 2021 4.38pm)

One more point

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Orange1290 18 May 21 4.54pm
Originally posted by Spiderman They were tourists! Last time I looked tourists didn’t need residence documents. Frontier workers have all required documents to travel freely around Europe. Perhaps your out of your depth on this one? Still if it suits your anti- Brexit stance, you carry on! Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 4.15pm) They were claiming they were residents, not 'frontier' workers or anything else. If you have a TIE card there is no problem and the card was designed to exactly avoid this problem. Anyone with any form of common sense will have obtained a TIE card and this has been the case as thousands have had no issue entering Spain this year. many Brits think they should be treated preferentially to others, seen it lot during my extensive traveling but it doesn't wash, now they've joined the real world. Now, with regards to who is out of their depth, here's an article from a newspaper that's probably about your level, no TIE cards: [Link] No 'anti-brexit' stance at all, just pointing out facts that you don't seem able to accept. Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 4.55pm) Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

18 May 21 4.54pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 4.15pm)

They were claiming they were residents, not 'frontier' workers or anything else. If you have a TIE card there is no problem and the card was designed to exactly avoid this problem. Anyone with any form of common sense will have obtained a TIE card and this has been the case as thousands have had no issue entering Spain this year. many Brits think they should be treated preferentially to others, seen it lot during my extensive traveling but it doesn't wash, now they've joined the real world.

Now, with regards to who is out of their depth, here's an article from a newspaper that's probably about your level, no TIE cards:

[Link]

No 'anti-brexit' stance at all, just pointing out facts that you don't seem able to accept.

Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 4.55pm)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Spiderman Horsham 18 May 21 5.03pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 They were claiming they were residents, not 'frontier' workers or anything else. If you have a TIE card there is no problem and the card was designed to exactly avoid this problem. Anyone with any form of common sense will have obtained a TIE card and this has been the case as thousands have had no issue entering Spain this year. many Brits think they should be treated preferentially to others, seen it lot during my extensive traveling but it doesn't wash, now they've joined the real world. Now, with regards to who is out of their depth, here's an article from a newspaper that's probably about your level, no TIE cards: [Link] No 'anti-brexit' stance at all, just pointing out facts that you don't seem able to accept. Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 4.55pm) Nothing like a country moving the goalposts is there? Day of article Spain changed the rules! A frontier worker was indeed refused, unless of course he was not being truthful with my wife when he spoke to her, unless you know better of course . Doesn’t look like the lady visiting a sick parent was anything other than a visitor Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 5.14pm)
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Spiderman

Horsham 18 May 21 5.03pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

Now, with regards to who is out of their depth, here's an article from a newspaper that's probably about your level, no TIE cards:

[Link]

No 'anti-brexit' stance at all, just pointing out facts that you don't seem able to accept.

Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 4.55pm)

Nothing like a country moving the goalposts is there? Day of article Spain changed the rules! A frontier worker was indeed refused, unless of course he was not being truthful with my wife when he spoke to her, unless you know better of course . Doesn’t look like the lady visiting a sick parent was anything other than a visitor

Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 5.14pm)

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Orange1290 18 May 21 6.00pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Nothing like a country moving the goalposts is there? Day of article Spain changed the rules! A frontier worker was indeed refused, unless of course he was not being truthful with my wife when he spoke to her, unless you know better of course . Doesn’t look like the lady visiting a sick parent was anything other than a visitor Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 5.14pm) Not moving a goal post at all. Spain announced more than a year ago that a TIE card would be necessary and gave all residents information and notice that they should apply for one. Most people did but some Brits who thought they could carry on as usual, that brexit wouldn't affect them, were caught out. So it's ok for the Jersey government to apply rules to French fishermen but not ok when rules apply to the Brits? This is so typical of the arrogance portrait by the UK abroad. As I said earlier, Spain is acting as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and its citizens. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

18 May 21 6.00pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Edited by Spiderman (18 May 2021 5.14pm)

Not moving a goal post at all. Spain announced more than a year ago that a TIE card would be necessary and gave all residents information and notice that they should apply for one. Most people did but some Brits who thought they could carry on as usual, that brexit wouldn't affect them, were caught out. So it's ok for the Jersey government to apply rules to French fishermen but not ok when rules apply to the Brits? This is so typical of the arrogance portrait by the UK abroad. As I said earlier, Spain is acting as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and its citizens.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Spiderman Horsham 18 May 21 6.42pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 Not moving a goal post at all. Spain announced more than a year ago that a TIE card would be necessary and gave all residents information and notice that they should apply for one. Most people did but some Brits who thought they could carry on as usual, that brexit wouldn't affect them, were caught out. So it's ok for the Jersey government to apply rules to French fishermen but not ok when rules apply to the Brits? This is so typical of the arrogance portrait by the UK abroad. As I said earlier, Spain is acting as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and its citizens. Nice to see you can accept a country has the right to act as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and citizens, presumably this is acceptable to ALL countries! D
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Spiderman

Horsham 18 May 21 6.42pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

Nice to see you can accept a country has the right to act as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and citizens, presumably this is acceptable to ALL countries! D

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Orange1290 18 May 21 7.21pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Nice to see you can accept a country has the right to act as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and citizens, presumably this is acceptable to ALL countries! D Of course it is and that includes the UK, which always had the right to protect its borders even as an EU member, which we already discussed a few days ago. Regarding sovereignty, the UK always had that as an EU member, Spain and France have already demonstrated that they have sovereignty as EU members. However, the UK government seems to not want to protect its borders. Just look an the Indian variant of covid, air borders closed to India 2 weeks after those to Bangladesh and pakistan were closed, even when India had far, far higher infection rates. Funny how that coincided with Johnson's plan to visit India to start a trade deal negotiation. Good he's putting business over the nation's health as usual while also putting the rest of Europe at risk. Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 7.25pm) Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

18 May 21 7.21pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Nice to see you can accept a country has the right to act as a sovereign state, protecting its borders and citizens, presumably this is acceptable to ALL countries! D

Of course it is and that includes the UK, which always had the right to protect its borders even as an EU member, which we already discussed a few days ago. Regarding sovereignty, the UK always had that as an EU member, Spain and France have already demonstrated that they have sovereignty as EU members. However, the UK government seems to not want to protect its borders. Just look an the Indian variant of covid, air borders closed to India 2 weeks after those to Bangladesh and pakistan were closed, even when India had far, far higher infection rates. Funny how that coincided with Johnson's plan to visit India to start a trade deal negotiation. Good he's putting business over the nation's health as usual while also putting the rest of Europe at risk.

Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 7.25pm)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Spiderman Horsham 18 May 21 9.17pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 Of course it is and that includes the UK, which always had the right to protect its borders even as an EU member, which we already discussed a few days ago. Regarding sovereignty, the UK always had that as an EU member, Spain and France have already demonstrated that they have sovereignty as EU members. However, the UK government seems to not want to protect its borders. Just look an the Indian variant of covid, air borders closed to India 2 weeks after those to Bangladesh and pakistan were closed, even when India had far, far higher infection rates. Funny how that coincided with Johnson's plan to visit India to start a trade deal negotiation. Good he's putting business over the nation's health as usual while also putting the rest of Europe at risk. Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 7.25pm) So why then complain about queues at Border Control? If we should protect our Borders that entails queues..right? I have always said we should have completely shut our borders but then you wouldn’t have been able to travel here, presumably you did as you complained about queues at Heathrow. So should we have shut the borders to everyone? You will be surprised how many people suddenly have to travel on urgent business and have to take family with them. Why did you travel?
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Spiderman

Horsham 18 May 21 9.17pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

Edited by Orange1290 (18 May 2021 7.25pm)

So why then complain about queues at Border Control? If we should protect our Borders that entails queues..right? I have always said we should have completely shut our borders but then you wouldn’t have been able to travel here, presumably you did as you complained about queues at Heathrow. So should we have shut the borders to everyone? You will be surprised how many people suddenly have to travel on urgent business and have to take family with them. Why did you travel?

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Mapletree Croydon 18 May 21 10.03pm
Originally posted by jeeagles Just had my vaccine. Very efficient system with little bureaucracy. The logistics must have been sorted by the armed services as there is no way the NHS/Civil Service/local authority would role out as system with that much attention to detail in the process without stuffing it full of middle management. A great example of what Britain can achieve if we don't settle for mediocrity. As far as I can see the idea the military managed this is Government spin. Why decry the service we have all depended upon? When push comes to shove British people are good at taking initiative. And it’s roll not role.
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Mapletree

Croydon 18 May 21 10.03pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

As far as I can see the idea the military managed this is Government spin. Why decry the service we have all depended upon? When push comes to shove British people are good at taking initiative.

And it’s roll not role.

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