This is again a distortion. We have a uk general election, uk local elections, mep european elections, mayoral elections and even down here in sussex police commissioner elections - which means my kids nursery was shut fir a day as it was used as a polling station ffs. In the UK we have commissioned reports by industry experts e.g paul myners, lord browne, adair turner etc...all unelected, who compile reports with their teams and make recommendations. None can become law without an mp vote (although the house of lords (also unelected) can veto.
Similarly in the eu they have specialists i.e. non politicians making recommendations or most usually trading standards that ensure quality, farming methods etc. So when Boris complains about 4 banana regulations from an unelected body, what does he want, an elected minister for bananas?! Really?!
And we are not prevented from trading with the rest of the world be it a socialist paradise or an african dictatorship unless there are sanctons. I've read on here that 55% of our overseas trade is now outside of the eu (and subject to wto rules which would be the same in event of brexit) so this part of our trade is flourishing already

Ignoring the point about schools (I dont want to be accused of accusing you of being against democracy).

1. 'Commissioned' reports - who commissions these reports? Our elected government. Who chooses whether or not to implement their recommendations? Our elected government. Who gets to debate / amend parts of the legislation? Our elected MP's. Does the same process of scrutiny occur in the EU - possibly, but not by elected officials from this country

2. Trade outside the EU. We are absolutely prevented properly trading with countries outside the 'common market'. As the EU puts tariffs on some non european goods, those countries tend to retaliate by tariffing common market goods (within WTO rules - assuming they are a member). As a member of the common market, we are therefore subject to those tariffs even if it isn't of benefit to us.

Also, as members of the EU, we are prevented from signing our own trade deals unless ratified by the rest of the EU, a lengthy and arduous process.

When we do get a trade deal such as the EU - USA one, we find that it isn't tailored to our interests as it will pave the way for US companies to purchase parts of the NHS.

To say that non - EU trade is unaffected by EU membership when we can't even pick up the phone and talk about a trade deal with another country i'm afraid is distortion max!

1. Yes of course, but the executive isn't, they propose the legislation. If we are just relying on our MEP's (which you have already pointed out as doing a piss poor job) to just block legislation until we get something that suits us as a good system of governance, i'm afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Your argument is that the system is broken because 'we' the British people are too stupid to vote the way which suits brussels - oh brilliant. Thats the democracy issue sewn up then.

2. Says who? The EU? Where is the benchmark? There is none, because we dont have one because we can't trade deal ourself. You've just accused the leave group of making an unjustified claim then dropped a whopper yourself.

Tell me, hows the EU - Canada trade deal coming along? Is it done yet?

How is the EU - Australia deal done yet too?

Could you link me to the EU - China deal?

But its okay, just keep telling everyone its all going fine, nothing to see here, at least at the EU -( insert country X) trade deal signing ceremony anyway.

I'm not here to defend, UKIP, I don't care what happens to them or any other MEP, my issue is that you seem intent to just keep blaming the electorate for why the system isn't working. This is the whole issue with the EU and why it loses / refuses to address its really sketchy democratic record. If anyone takes issue with its structure, they just turn around and say, "oh no, its not our fault our system of government doesn't fit your local populace, its their fault they don't fit into our imposed system of doing things". Literally shocking behaviour.

When China and Australia signed their FTA last year, the Chinese didn't say "oh no Australia, we here in China are bigger than everyone else meaning you can only trade with us".

China and Australia now have a fully functioning FTA which allows 95% tariff free trade, millions of dollars of mutual trade and thousands of working holiday visa's for ordinary Chinese citizens with the skills Australia needs. Can we have that? I'm still waiting for your link...

Nope your solution is to rely on big man brussels, the head of a trade bloc that hasn't grown economically in 10 years to just bully our way in trade negotiation while still thinking we run the world.

It's a fundamental mistake to assume that those who will vote for Brexit are solely from right of centre parties. As can be seen from my sparring with Gusset, the EU is alot more vulnerable from attacks from the left of the political spectrum than it is from the right.

Again, I won't berate your political ideology, if a central left approach is what you want, then go and vote for it, no criticism here, but the notion this can only be found at European level is not true.

As for trade deal scenario, its key that both sides own up to their risks. As a Brexiteer, I will be the first to admit leaving has risks, but so does staying and its very important the remain camp are clear about these risks.

The beauty of our country is it has special relationships and soft power levels which some other countries in Europe can only dream about. I can't talk for all other countries here, but being an international student in China, i've quickly realised just how much the Chinese love 'us - the British' and how badly they want to buy into all things British. The potential for post Brexit UK to tap into two of the worlds largest economies of which we are held in high regard is almost limitless, why should we give other countries a veto on that relationship?

FYI, my last post for the night. Thanks for playing.

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always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.