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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 8.52am
Quote Palacetinian at 03 Aug 2014 8.37pm Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 8.06pm Quote Palacetinian at 03 Aug 2014 7.50pm Really Stirling? It's you that trots out Israeli propaganda all the time despite all the evidence that others here have posted in reply. If you really believe the wall is solely responsible for a 90% reduction in suicide bombing then you are mistaken. Did Israeli apartheid wall really stop suicide bombings? [Link] Are you calling actual statistics that can be checked, Israeli propaganda? This done from a website called, 'electronicintifada.net'.....Does that statement qualify as self parody? Are statistics Israeli propaganda now? Some Wiki links on deaths from suicide bombers which show the massive declines from 2002 onwards. In the references for the two you have two non Israeli sources. [Link] It is very clear. 452 in 2002 when the barrier was built to 9 in 2010....Hardly any now. It is certainly true that militants could increase this number but the quickly found out that attacking via this method was far less effective. In terms of reducing Israeli civilian the barrier has been a huge success.....though I recognise the problems associated with it. In terms of arguing against this....perhaps it is you who are listening to propaganda. You are using a simple statistic (452 in 2002 when the barrier was built to 9 in 2010....Hardly any now) and drawing a simple conclusion. If you actually read the article which was written by Ben White (not an Israeli or a Palestinian. In fact you can also google what Roger Waters from Pink Floyd thinks about the wall, which is actually illegal in terms of international law. Unlike you, I suspect, I have actually seen the wall at first hand and know the impact it has had on people's lives so your last comment is also invalid - I don't need to be "listening to propaganda". Over 12 hours and nobody has made a Pink Floyd/Wall gag? Standards are slipping. Well he should know a thing or two about walls. Edited by EagleEyedAlbert (04 Aug 2014 8.53am) "IS HE!!?" -Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter: [Link] "You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"
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EagleEyedAlbert

...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 8.52am

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Quote Palacetinian at 03 Aug 2014 8.37pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 8.06pm

Quote Palacetinian at 03 Aug 2014 7.50pm

Really Stirling? It's you that trots out Israeli propaganda all the time despite all the evidence that others here have posted in reply.

If you really believe the wall is solely responsible for a 90% reduction in suicide bombing then you are mistaken.

Did Israeli apartheid wall really stop suicide bombings?

[Link]

Are you calling actual statistics that can be checked, Israeli propaganda?

This done from a website called, 'electronicintifada.net'.....Does that statement qualify as self parody?

Are statistics Israeli propaganda now?

Some Wiki links on deaths from suicide bombers which show the massive declines from 2002 onwards. In the references for the two you have two non Israeli sources.

[Link]

It is very clear.

452 in 2002 when the barrier was built to 9 in 2010....Hardly any now.

It is certainly true that militants could increase this number but the quickly found out that attacking via this method was far less effective. In terms of reducing Israeli civilian the barrier has been a huge success.....though I recognise the problems associated with it.

In terms of arguing against this....perhaps it is you who are listening to propaganda.

You are using a simple statistic (452 in 2002 when the barrier was built to 9 in 2010....Hardly any now) and drawing a simple conclusion.

If you actually read the article which was written by Ben White (not an Israeli or a Palestinian. In fact you can also google what Roger Waters from Pink Floyd thinks about the wall, which is actually illegal in terms of international law.

Unlike you, I suspect, I have actually seen the wall at first hand and know the impact it has had on people's lives so your last comment is also invalid - I don't need to be "listening to propaganda".

Over 12 hours and nobody has made a Pink Floyd/Wall gag?

Standards are slipping.

Well he should know a thing or two about walls.

Edited by EagleEyedAlbert (04 Aug 2014 8.53am)

"IS HE!!?"

-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense:

Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link]

HOL Radio Twitter: [Link]

Me on the Twitter: [Link]

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legaleagle 04 Aug 14 9.12am
It seems to me not credible to argue that a substantial purpose of the Israeli government in building the wall was not to inappropriately try and unilaterally mark out an advantageous divide for a future two state solution by putting "facts on the ground", as much as to try and reduce deaths, however much the latter might have been a part of the reason. [Link]
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legaleagle

04 Aug 14 9.12am

It seems to me not credible to argue that a substantial purpose of the Israeli government in building the wall was not to inappropriately try and unilaterally mark out an advantageous divide for a future two state solution by putting "facts on the ground", as much as to try and reduce deaths, however much the latter might have been a part of the reason.

[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Aug 14 11.55am
[Link] Interview with Hamas leader.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Aug 14 11.55am

[Link]

Interview with Hamas leader.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Aug 14 12.19pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 10.30pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Aug 2014 10.23pm That's what I don't get about Islamist Terrorists, the indiscriminate carnage against people who might otherwise be sympathetic to your cause. I get the idea of targeting government, institutions of government, politicians even the military and organisations implicit in 'oppression', what I don't get is how just killing a train full of people actually works towards anything except an escalation. But isn't that the basis of all terrorism, Islamic or otherwise? We could talk about the IRA, ETA, the ANC the Black September movement and many others. Terrorism is not conventional war. History suggests that it doesn't have a direct effect, but it does have an indirect impact in terms of bringing people to the negotiating table. For the most part the IRA weren't that indiscriminate - the majority of targets were military, government and infrastructure. Similarly ETA, both were part of a greater political struggle. Civilians were targets but the campaigns weren't entirely about just killing people in the UK. Similarly like Hijackings people were killed, but the purpose behind those attacks wasn't to kill as many people as possible, it fitted into a greater whole. I kind of understand the idea of people going off to fight Jyhad to 'liberate' muslim nations, such as Syria etc, but not really how blowing up a bus in London fits with any kind of strategy or goal. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Aug 14 12.19pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 10.30pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Aug 2014 10.23pm

That's what I don't get about Islamist Terrorists, the indiscriminate carnage against people who might otherwise be sympathetic to your cause. I get the idea of targeting government, institutions of government, politicians even the military and organisations implicit in 'oppression', what I don't get is how just killing a train full of people actually works towards anything except an escalation.

But isn't that the basis of all terrorism, Islamic or otherwise? We could talk about the IRA, ETA, the ANC the Black September movement and many others. Terrorism is not conventional war. History suggests that it doesn't have a direct effect, but it does have an indirect impact in terms of bringing people to the negotiating table.

For the most part the IRA weren't that indiscriminate - the majority of targets were military, government and infrastructure. Similarly ETA, both were part of a greater political struggle. Civilians were targets but the campaigns weren't entirely about just killing people in the UK. Similarly like Hijackings people were killed, but the purpose behind those attacks wasn't to kill as many people as possible, it fitted into a greater whole.

I kind of understand the idea of people going off to fight Jyhad to 'liberate' muslim nations, such as Syria etc, but not really how blowing up a bus in London fits with any kind of strategy or goal.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 12.21pm
Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am [Link] Interview with Hamas leader. If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever. "IS HE!!?" -Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter: [Link] "You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"
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EagleEyedAlbert

...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 12.21pm

Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am

[Link]

Interview with Hamas leader.

If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever.

"IS HE!!?"

-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense:

Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link]

HOL Radio Twitter: [Link]

Me on the Twitter: [Link]

"You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 04 Aug 14 12.59pm
Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 04 Aug 2014 12.21pm Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am [Link] Interview with Hamas leader. If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever. Is there a price on his head or is his safety guaranteed by not wanting to make martyrs or for having someone to negotiate with? Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 04 Aug 14 12.59pm

Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 04 Aug 2014 12.21pm

Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am

[Link]

Interview with Hamas leader.

If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever.

Is there a price on his head or is his safety guaranteed by not wanting to make martyrs or for having someone to negotiate with?

Red and Blue Army!

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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 1.20pm
Quote ASCPFC at 04 Aug 2014 12.59pm Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 04 Aug 2014 12.21pm Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am [Link] Interview with Hamas leader. If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever. Is there a price on his head or is his safety guaranteed by not wanting to make martyrs or for having someone to negotiate with? errrrr... yes maybe? Pass. "IS HE!!?" -Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter: [Link] "You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"
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EagleEyedAlbert

...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 1.20pm

Quote ASCPFC at 04 Aug 2014 12.59pm

Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 04 Aug 2014 12.21pm

Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am

[Link]

Interview with Hamas leader.

If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever.

Is there a price on his head or is his safety guaranteed by not wanting to make martyrs or for having someone to negotiate with?

errrrr... yes maybe?

Pass.

"IS HE!!?"

-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense:

Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link]

HOL Radio Twitter: [Link]

Me on the Twitter: [Link]

"You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 04 Aug 14 2.27pm
Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 04 Aug 2014 12.21pm Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am [Link] Interview with Hamas leader. If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 04 Aug 14 2.27pm

Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 04 Aug 2014 12.21pm

Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2014 11.55am

[Link]

Interview with Hamas leader.

If he's as good at dodging the IDF as he is at dodging questions, he's in no danger whatsoever.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Seth On a pale blue dot 04 Aug 14 3.49pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Aug 2014 12.19pm I kind of understand the idea of people going off to fight Jyhad to 'liberate' muslim nations, such as Syria etc, but not really how blowing up a bus in London fits with any kind of strategy or goal. I believe it's about revenge, and bringing the war to our streets. The thinking goes, "you come to Muslim countries [Iraq, Afghan etc] and kill our civilians, so we're going to come to your country and kill your civilians, so you know what it's like for us." Edited by Seth (04 Aug 2014 3.49pm) "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 04 Aug 14 3.49pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Aug 2014 12.19pm

I kind of understand the idea of people going off to fight Jyhad to 'liberate' muslim nations, such as Syria etc, but not really how blowing up a bus in London fits with any kind of strategy or goal.

I believe it's about revenge, and bringing the war to our streets. The thinking goes, "you come to Muslim countries [Iraq, Afghan etc] and kill our civilians, so we're going to come to your country and kill your civilians, so you know what it's like for us."

Edited by Seth (04 Aug 2014 3.49pm)

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 3.53pm
Quote Seth at 04 Aug 2014 3.49pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Aug 2014 12.19pm I kind of understand the idea of people going off to fight Jyhad to 'liberate' muslim nations, such as Syria etc, but not really how blowing up a bus in London fits with any kind of strategy or goal. I believe it's about revenge, and bringing the war to our streets. The thinking goes, "you come to Muslim countries [Iraq, Afghan etc] and kill our civilians, so we're going to come to your country and kill your civilians, so you know what it's like for us." Edited by Seth (04 Aug 2014 3.49pm) That and most bus drivers are c*s. "IS HE!!?" -Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter:** [Link] "You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"
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EagleEyedAlbert

...too far north of the water. 04 Aug 14 3.53pm

Quote Seth at 04 Aug 2014 3.49pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Aug 2014 12.19pm

I kind of understand the idea of people going off to fight Jyhad to 'liberate' muslim nations, such as Syria etc, but not really how blowing up a bus in London fits with any kind of strategy or goal.

Edited by Seth (04 Aug 2014 3.49pm)

That and most bus drivers are c***s.

"IS HE!!?"

-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense:

Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link]

HOL Radio Twitter: [Link]

Me on the Twitter: [Link]

"You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"

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Seth On a pale blue dot 04 Aug 14 3.58pm
For those who don't believe an aim of many Israelis is the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza and its absorption into Israel, have a look at this: [Link] [Link] Yes it's from electronicintifada.net, but the text is from Moshe Feiglin (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset)'s facebook, which is linked to his official Knesset page, and appears to be genuine. Defining the tasks Conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters. he IDF [Israeli army] shall designate certain open areas on the Sinai border, adjacent to the sea, in which the civilian population will be concentrated, far from the built-up areas that are used for launches and tunneling. In these areas, tent encampments will be established, until relevant emigration destinations are determined. The supply of electricity and water to the formerly populated areas will be disconnected. b) The formerly populated areas will be shelled with maximum fire power. The entire civilian and military infrastructure of Hamas, its means of communication and of logistics, will be destroyed entirely, down to their foundations. c) The IDF will divide the Gaza Strip laterally and crosswise, significantly expand the corridors, occupy commanding positions, and exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain. d) Israel will start searching for emigration destinations and quotas for the refugees from Gaza. Those who wish to emigrate will be given a generous economic support package, and will arrive at the receiving countries with considerable economic capabilities. e) Those who insist on staying, if they can be proven to have no affiliation with Hamas, will be required to publicly sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel, and receive a blue ID card similar to that of the Arabs of East Jerusalem. f) When the fighting will end, Israeli law will be extended to cover the entire Gaza Strip, the people evicted from the Gush Katif will be invited to return to their settlements, and the city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as true Israeli touristic and commercial cities. Edited by Seth (04 Aug 2014 3.58pm) "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 04 Aug 14 3.58pm

For those who don't believe an aim of many Israelis is the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza and its absorption into Israel, have a look at this: [Link] [Link]

Yes it's from electronicintifada.net, but the text is from Moshe Feiglin (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset)'s facebook, which is linked to his official Knesset page, and appears to be genuine.

Defining the tasks

Conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.

he IDF [Israeli army] shall designate certain open areas on the Sinai border, adjacent to the sea, in which the civilian population will be concentrated, far from the built-up areas that are used for launches and tunneling. In these areas, tent encampments will be established, until relevant emigration destinations are determined.

The supply of electricity and water to the formerly populated areas will be disconnected.

b) The formerly populated areas will be shelled with maximum fire power. The entire civilian and military infrastructure of Hamas, its means of communication and of logistics, will be destroyed entirely, down to their foundations.

c) The IDF will divide the Gaza Strip laterally and crosswise, significantly expand the corridors, occupy commanding positions, and exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.

d) Israel will start searching for emigration destinations and quotas for the refugees from Gaza. Those who wish to emigrate will be given a generous economic support package, and will arrive at the receiving countries with considerable economic capabilities.

e) Those who insist on staying, if they can be proven to have no affiliation with Hamas, will be required to publicly sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel, and receive a blue ID card similar to that of the Arabs of East Jerusalem.

f) When the fighting will end, Israeli law will be extended to cover the entire Gaza Strip, the people evicted from the Gush Katif will be invited to return to their settlements, and the city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as true Israeli touristic and commercial cities.

Edited by Seth (04 Aug 2014 3.58pm)

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Seth On a pale blue dot 04 Aug 14 4.20pm
“The blood of a dialysis patient in Gaza is not redder than the blood of our IDF [Israeli army] soldiers who will, God forbid, need to enter [Gaza],” said Moshe Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, on Wednesday. “Therefore I call on the prime minister who we all support in this difficult hour, before we send the IDF into Gaza, we should simply shut down their electricity,” he added. Still, Stern [Elazar Stern, a former general and a member of justice minister Tzipi Livni’s Hatnuah (“The Movement”) party] insisted that bombing Gaza was an act of benevolence on Israel’s part. “When we shoot at a house in Gaza, it is also in order for Gazans to live better,” he states. “I’m telling you that the missiles we shoot into Gaza are not only to save lives in Tel Aviv and Asheklon but also to save lives in Gaza,” he adds. [Link] "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 04 Aug 14 4.20pm

“The blood of a dialysis patient in Gaza is not redder than the blood of our IDF [Israeli army] soldiers who will, God forbid, need to enter [Gaza],” said Moshe Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, on Wednesday.

“Therefore I call on the prime minister who we all support in this difficult hour, before we send the IDF into Gaza, we should simply shut down their electricity,” he added.

Still, Stern [Elazar Stern, a former general and a member of justice minister Tzipi Livni’s Hatnuah (“The Movement”) party] insisted that bombing Gaza was an act of benevolence on Israel’s part.

“When we shoot at a house in Gaza, it is also in order for Gazans to live better,” he states.

“I’m telling you that the missiles we shoot into Gaza are not only to save lives in Tel Aviv and Asheklon but also to save lives in Gaza,” he adds.

[Link]

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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