This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Coronavirus (LOCKED)
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
 Stirlingsays  09 Dec 21 2.18pm |
   |
|---|---|
|
It's an excellent article and it backs up a lot of the observations made within that surgeon video.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 21 2.35pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Painter
I thought the NHS was there to save us, not us save the NHS by not needing any treatment. One of the things I learned during a long business career was that boundless resources existing to fulfill unlimited demands is a myth. The NHS is there to "save us" but it doesn't have unlimited resources, especially of manpower, which cannot simply be increased by pushing buttons or spending money. The staff are already exhausted by the pandemic's demands, so anything that can be done by us to reduce the demands enables them to do what they, and us, want them to do. Which is indeed to save us, even when that is from our own selfishness or stupidity.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 21 3.04pm |
|
|---|---|
|
No-one argues that lockdowns don't present heavy costs and should be avoided whenever possible. That though isn't the point, is it? It's really easy to complain about everything we have been asked to do. Lockdowns hurt the economy and cost lives. Masks don't work. Vaccines invade our personal freedoms. Etc etc. However, those things have to be balanced against the costs of not doing them in the circumstances we faced at the time they were made, and with the information available at the time they were being made, to those who had to make them. None of us actually had to make those decisions. Neither are we experts in this field, nor do we possess all the information. Armchair experts, and hindsight, might keep people amused and feeling self-righteous, but they are of no practical benefit. What we all ought to do is work together, whatever our reservations, and support the national effort. Not argue with it because you think you know better. This is a fight in which we are all enlisted in the army. Our commanders have decreed the battle plan. Our job is to carry it out. Conscientious objectors tended to be vilified and given non-combat roles, which isn't practical in this fight, where the enemy is everywhere. Which is why I believe those who refuse to join the fight not only deserve to be ostracised, but are now beginning to be.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 09 Dec 21 3.11pm |
|
|---|---|
|
'If you aren't with us, you're against us'. This guy is a meme. The reactions to covid will kill more than covid....that was said at the beginning...well once the evidence was in anyway....said by many and every day it looks more wise. The hubris of those who supported and still support this nuttery doesn't change a thing....People can self justify and rationalise till the cows come home.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Teddy Eagle  09 Dec 21 3.13pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No-one argues that lockdowns don't present heavy costs and should be avoided whenever possible. That though isn't the point, is it? It's really easy to complain about everything we have been asked to do. Lockdowns hurt the economy and cost lives. Masks don't work. Vaccines invade our personal freedoms. Etc etc. However, those things have to be balanced against the costs of not doing them in the circumstances we faced at the time they were made, and with the information available at the time they were being made, to those who had to make them. None of us actually had to make those decisions. Neither are we experts in this field, nor do we possess all the information. Armchair experts, and hindsight, might keep people amused and feeling self-righteous, but they are of no practical benefit. What we all ought to do is work together, whatever our reservations, and support the national effort. Not argue with it because you think you know better. This is a fight in which we are all enlisted in the army. Our commanders have decreed the battle plan. Our job is to carry it out. Conscientious objectors tended to be vilified and given non-combat roles, which isn't practical in this fight, where the enemy is everywhere. Which is why I believe those who refuse to join the fight not only deserve to be ostracised, but are now beginning to be. It might not be your point but it is mine. The effects of lockdown will go on for years, in terms of mental health issues, closed down businesses and those who have and will die as a result of cancelled diagnoses and operations who have played their part as well. What’s the message to them?
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 21 3.41pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'If you aren't with us, you're against us'. This guy is a meme. The reactions to covid will kill more than covid....that was said at the beginning...well once the evidence was in anyway....said by many and every day it looks more wise. The hubris of those who supported and still support this nuttery doesn't change a thing....People can self justify and rationalise till the cows come home. That's a completely nonsensical assertion. That you, and a few others, make it, doesn't mean it's true. I would rather trust those whose life work it is to study these issues to balance all the potential outcomes to reach their conclusions, via a consensus, than those who think they know better on all kinds of issues, but have been already proven wrong on many. Barrack room experts have always existed and are always best ignored. We can be very sure they will be. All they will do is increase global warming via the hot air they keep blowing. I suppose the cold comfort is that while we keep them at their keyboards, they aren't out infecting others.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 21 3.49pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It might not be your point but it is mine. The effects of lockdown will go on for years, in terms of mental health issues, closed down businesses and those who have and will die as a result of cancelled diagnoses and operations who have played their part as well. What’s the message to them? As most already understand the message, there is no more need to explain it. There are always positive and negative impacts from every decision on how to cope with a complex issue like this. Simply listing the negatives is easy. It needs balance and context. I wouldn't want to be taking the decisions. I freely admit I don't know nearly enough to be able to do so. Do you?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
 georgenorman 09 Dec 21 3.51pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Recorded, sure. You do realise that only a handful of processing centres can identify the variant, right? So when the figures are released they're not accurate. The amount of Omicron in circulation will be much higher. So I'd be suprised if there are no cases in hospital. Further, we won't see any useful hospitalisation data for 2-3 weeks due to the lag. This is all old ground, I shouldn't need to explain something that has been in the public domain for over 18 months now. No one is saying close anything down, either, are they? No. Scaremongering. The capacity issue is obvious. It happens in bad flu seasons and no one complains about precautions 'just in case our hospitals have to have patients'. Don't be so ignorant. Thanks for the insult, surprised you can find the time with all your worry about zero deaths and admissions.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 09 Dec 21 3.52pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's a completely nonsensical assertion. That you, and a few others, make it, doesn't mean it's true. I would rather trust those whose life work it is to study these issues to balance all the potential outcomes to reach their conclusions, via a consensus, than those who think they know better on all kinds of issues, but have been already proven wrong on many. I suspect it's you talking out of your Cornish Pastie again. Barrack room experts have always existed and are always best ignored. We can be very sure they will be. All they will do is increase global warming via the hot air they keep blowing. I suppose the cold comfort is that while we keep them at their keyboards, they aren't out infecting others. Proven wrong? If I'm wrong about something and there's proof of it, I'd very much like to know...because I don't like being wrong. I mean, anyone can be wrong. I'm curious what has actually proven me wrong? As for keeping me at my keyboard, that's right WE, you're the reasons I'm at my keyboard......Me, I just can't get enough of mendacious old man narcissism....it's like crack. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Dec 2021 3.55pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Teddy Eagle 09 Dec 21 3.59pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As most already understand the message, there is no more need to explain it. There are always positive and negative impacts from every decision on how to cope with a complex issue like this. Simply listing the negatives is easy. It needs balance and context. I wouldn't want to be taking the decisions. I freely admit I don't know nearly enough to be able to do so. Do you? My contention is that locking down to save the NHS was counterproductive. They weren’t overwhelmed by Covid but are now overwhelmed by the resultant backlog and will be for years to come.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 21 4.05pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It might not be your point but it is mine. The effects of lockdown will go on for years, in terms of mental health issues, closed down businesses and those who have and will die as a result of cancelled diagnoses and operations who have played their part as well. What’s the message to them? The original issue there was keeping the hospitals closed empty for summer 2020. Now it’s hospital resources being used on covid, or too much covid than there would be if there weren’t so many, and their relatives, more at risk of hospitalisation while knowing it and not wanting to get vaccinated.
COYP |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 21 4.14pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's a completely nonsensical assertion. That you, and a few others, make it, doesn't mean it's true. I would rather trust those whose life work it is to study these issues to balance all the potential outcomes to reach their conclusions, via a consensus, than those who think they know better on all kinds of issues, but have been already proven wrong on many. Barrack room experts have always existed and are always best ignored. We can be very sure they will be. All they will do is increase global warming via the hot air they keep blowing. I suppose the cold comfort is that while we keep them at their keyboards, they aren't out infecting others. Long lockdowns are very damaging long term and Stirling makes a good point there. But restrictions on gatherings or requirements to to gather for a few weeks aren’t the same or going to be the same, as long as they act if the data says so, and that’s where I don’t trust the current leaders led by medics.
COYP |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.