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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Stirlingsays Flag 04 Mar 22 11.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is a lot in this post that could be picked apart but I'll just respond to a couple of points.

I don't believe Nato could give such assurances. Membership is open to those who meet their criteria. There are disputed accounts of what was said when the re-unification of Germany happened, but they concern conversations between the US Secretary of State and Gorbachev. The US cannot commit Nato, although Russia, via Putin, seems to think it can. They, and some here it seems, have a fundamental misunderstanding of Nato's purpose and it's limitations. It's no threat to anyone. Its role is solely defensive. Maybe read this:-

[Link]

Given the way Putin has behaved in the past it's easy to understand why the Eastern European states would want to join a defensive alliance.

Of course the US wouldn't accept Russian missiles in Mexico. Russia isn't a defensive alliance like Nato! It's an aggressive, untrustworthy country run by an unstable dictator. The defensive forces in Eastern Europe are commanded by Nato, not by the USA or any other individual country. As I have suggested before there seems a way to create demilitarised buffer zones on each side of the borders. Wouldn't have helped Ukraine but might be a way forward.

I don't see much pragmatism in Putin. I see ruthlessness, deceit, and obsession but also miscalculation on an epic scale. However this ends there will never be forgiveness. The west will continue to squeeze, which will make him a very dangerous cornered animal. These are dark days which will last many years. Which is a very sad thought as I reach the final chapters of my life.

Your post just blows my mind.

I just don't think anything you've written here can be taken seriously. You will write any old crap.

It's the emperor's clothes again and sorry but I can't be bothered.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 04 Mar 22 11.19pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Your post just blows my mind.

I just don't think anything you've written here can be taken seriously. You will write any old crap.

It's the emperor's clothes again and sorry but I can't be bothered.

Bit of a singularity going on mate. I’m struggling to connect to my old thinking.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 04 Mar 22 11.28pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Bit of a singularity going on mate. I’m struggling to connect to my old thinking.

It's pointless really....shouldn't bother.

I'm off to bed.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 04 Mar 22 11.30pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Of the 2700 Manpad personal anti air systems Germany sent to Ukraine, 700 of them need to be binned - stored in terrible conditions and their rotten through.

Pretty much every central/eastern European country has neo Nazis, I don't really get the pant pissing over Nazis.

No one in Russia actually watches RT the only people being censored is us.

Am interested where this came from. If the German stingers are not usuable that's a worry and the entire inventory needs to be checked

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 04 Mar 22 11.35pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Even if that was correct, which I don't agree with why does that even matter?

If Putin attacks a Nato nation we go to war, that's the upshot. Nothing said in the culture war makes the blindest bit of difference.

Personally I think people can walk and chew gum at the same time, meaning....it's a reality that Putin started the war and his army is killing innocents but it's also a reality that Nato created the conditions for it.....Like I said, the US wouldn't accept missiles pointed at them in Mexico would they and Russia obviously feel threatened by missiles pointed at them in Poland and Romania both formerly soviet republics.

None of that should have happened....we had thirty frigging years to sort this out.

None of that changes the fact that if Nato is attacked we are all at war.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 9.08pm)

Why does it matter that Putin retakes parts of the old Soviet Union or this Twitter tribe (who dare not stray out of their tribe’s commitment to oppose anything our governments or even majority of population view)? Its not just the risks with a heavily armed nation conquering countries across Europe but countries don’t have a right to own and effectively control other countries. If we aren’t going to stop any military advancements should we just have a free for all worldwide? Sure Russia have military power but they can be damaged by other means. Like you e said, there are other means Putin could’ve used than recapturing Ukraine etc etc etc.

 


COYP

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BlueJay Flag UK 04 Mar 22 11.37pm

Quote


Plus new laws proposed to be passed that will strangle freedom of speech like never before.

So forgive me if I don't regard your claims of some massive difference in how home citizens are treated as something that was more true of the past than it is now.


Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 10.59pm)

I am against laws that inhibit free speech and freedoms in general and would never vote for any party bringing them in. As stated previously, they pit left against right to bring about a political environment where everyones freedoms are eroded. Tony Blair and the like did the same, and at the time that had war mongers cheering away, but said laws of course were used against whoever becomes inconvenient.

In Russia, you can literally be arrested and imprisoned for even saying a war is happening there. This isn't a matter of degrees. And a whole host of other views are are not allowed to be voiced. From 8000+ arrest of entirely peaceful protestors from children to the elderly, we see what freedom means there. Poisoned political opponents by the dozen. Opinions aren't cheap in Russia.

While I find your easy breezy attitude towards far right groups with extreme connections concerning, on one level it's almost amusing that you appear so unbothered in that political direction yet deeply disturbed by bog standard views in the other. That's for you though and as I say indicative of a life lived online. I certainly don't for a moment agree that it's right that anyone calls the police due to a persons opinion, but I would hope that it led nowhere and so realistically again it proves my point about our society vs others. I genuinely believe in freedoms. You certainly believe in them while you feel its yours under attack. The love-in for Russia by some (not necessarily you) on here, is far more revealing of the kind of government and clampdowns on freedoms some are fine with as long as they are aligned to their views.


Edited by BlueJay (05 Mar 2022 12.23am)

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 Mar 22 11.40pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Your post just blows my mind.

I just don't think anything you've written here can be taken seriously. You will write any old crap.

It's the emperor's clothes again and sorry but I can't be bothered.

I guess the link wasn't read alongside anything which challenges well oiled, and oft repeated, pre-conceptions.

Putin's claims about Nato are an excuse as flimsy as W12's reasoning is on here. Nato cannot attack anything. Only countries, or alliances can do that, and Nato is a defensive alliance not an aggressive one. One, or some, of its member states could do that, but alone, without Nato support. Why would they? It's inconceivable and must be obviously so to Putin too.

I find it quite sad that anyone in the west buys into these excuses and gives them a veneer of respectability.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays Flag 05 Mar 22 12.11am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Quote


Plus new laws proposed to be passed that will strangle freedom of speech like never before.

So forgive me if I don't regard your claims of some massive difference in how home citizens are treated as something that was more true of the past than it is now.


Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 10.59pm)

I am against laws that inhibit free speech and freedoms in general and would never vote for any party bringing them in. As stated previously, they pit left against right to bring about a political environment where everyones freedoms are eroded. Tony Blair and the like did the same, and at the time that had war mongers cheering away, but said laws of course were used against whoever becomes inconvenient.

You live in another world if you genuinely believe restrictions on freedoms in this country are comparable to the behaviour of the Russian government. You can literally be arrested and imprisoned for even saying a war is happening. This isn't a matter of degrees. And a whole host of other views are are not allowed to be voiced. From 8000+ arrest of peaceful protestors from children to the elderly, we see what freedoms exist in Russia.

While I find your easy breezy attitude towards far right groups with extreme connections concerning, on one level it's almost amusing that you appear so unbothered in that political direction and deeply disturbed by bog standard views in the other. That's for you though. I certainly don't agree that it's right that anyone calls the police due to a persons opinion, but I would assume it led nowhere and so realistically again it proves my point rather than yours. I genuinely believe in freedoms, you believe in them because you feel its its yours under attack. The love-in for Russia by some (Not you) on here, is far more revealing of the kind of government and clampdowns on freedoms some are fine with as long as they are aligned to their views.

Edited by BlueJay (04 Mar 2022 11.39pm)

I believe you when you say you're against freedom restrictions.

My point is that the the society you seem to be speaking about is more true of the past. I gave specific examples and what the reality is now.....and what is coming...Well, I think it's certainly going to shut me up, I'm not going to bother, it's literally the closing down of anything that opposes the state's ideologies.

As for me, so you assume that after a Police visit I'm not on a list now then? Really? So the Police get told I'm some kind of extremist and interview me and that's led to nothing has it.

Let's just say I'm rather less confident it'll lead to nothing.

My attitude to 'far right' groups is certainly concerned.
I think they are treated with huge gaping double standards.....Most of the people in them are pretty normal but are seeing their history and ancestry being attacked and diminished and would have been in the Tory party twenty years ago. Being called 'far right'....what does that mean exactly?...Those that are willing to stand for traditionalism? Stand against the ruinous outcomes of social liberalism? Higher crime rates, reduced social cohesion, told to sign up to work declarations they don't believe in or lose their jobs? Told to kneel? or they are some 'ist'.

The number of times I have to reply to posts talking about frigging neo nazis. I can point out that my views on historical ancestry claims have been echoed by figures like the Dalai Lama and is common and accepted all around the world..but you know that.

Indeed, when the South Africans were talking about their racial rights to rule their country during apartheid the left had zero issues with those claims...but the truth doesn't change the angle of attack does it. Who cares about truth when a winning tactic frightens people.

f*** Nazis, nothing I believe in has anything to do with mid century Germans or their murderous leader.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2022 12.18am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 05 Mar 22 12.12am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I said I was going to bed and then found myself typing again.

My brain is fried, I'm hitting the mattress.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 05 Mar 22 12.25am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I believe you when you say you're against freedom restrictions.

Certainly. I get very worried about any infringement of freedoms (be that speak, or just living a peaceful life who anyone sees fit) because there laws are always brought in under false pretenses, misused, and never returned. I guess on obvious upcoming battle would be encryption. As in it's something that it would be very easy to scare and persuade people is 'bad', as it can be misused in terrible ways, but the lack of it can also be abused in terrible ways by government. We see the likes of how the hacking tools of that Israeli company were used by horrendous regimes to pick people off essentially.


Quote
As for me, so you assume that after a Police visit I'm not on a list now then? Really? So the Police get told I'm some kind of extremist and interview me and that's led to nothing has it.

I think for all intents and purposes we're all on a list and it is filtered based on what we search for etc. Take today, in writing some of these posts and in relation to Ukraine, I've been Googling 'neo nazi' terms and the like. Nuke and weaponry terms too. I mean, I doubt it gets me put on any list that's positive .


Btw, I was intentionally keeping my 'nazi' comments to Putin's ludicrous claims of 'denazifying' Ukraine, and how comical it is to suddenly see some unlikely characters (again not particularly you beyond some light Putin massaging) suddenly turn on 'neo nazis' like their lives depend on it, solely because there's a murderous, freedom hating, war mongering authoritarian who demands their support instead. It's darkly amusing and pause for thought, though not for those engaging in it of course, because there is little thought to pause in the first place with this 'denazifying' propaganda.

Edited by BlueJay (05 Mar 2022 3.07am)

 

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Ouzo Dan Flag Behind you 05 Mar 22 2.47am Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Am interested where this came from. If the German stingers are not usuable that's a worry and the entire inventory needs to be checked

On my lunchbreak & only got 10 minutes left This link cites der spiegel & bild.
[Link]

It goes further, alot of mothballed equipment from Germany is only good for the bin, it was only a few years ago there wasnt enough guns to go around & troops were training with wooden guns & broomsticks

Edited by Ouzo Dan (05 Mar 2022 2.49am)

 


The mountains are calling & I must go.

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HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 05 Mar 22 4.39am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

On my lunchbreak & only got 10 minutes left This link cites der spiegel & bild.
[Link]

It goes further, alot of mothballed equipment from Germany is only good for the bin, it was only a few years ago there wasnt enough guns to go around & troops were training with wooden guns & broomsticks

Edited by Ouzo Dan (05 Mar 2022 2.49am)

Thanks Ouzo

Old East German stock of Russian made missiles declared unfit for use in 2012...WTF

Edited by HKOwen (05 Mar 2022 4.40am)

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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