Topic

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Coronavirus (LOCKED)

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 1001 of 1255 < 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 >

Topic Locked

Stirlingsays 07 Dec 21 12.41pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What's the logic here? Surely for those of us who have been double jabbed and boosted, catching Omicron won't add anything significant to our future protection against another variant? If the unvaccinated catch it then not only will they suffer more, and overload the NHS as a consequence, any subsequent protection will fade away after a while. We can have more booster jabs, but they won't. Are you anticipating some kind of herd immunity will develop? Herd immunity is developing regardless of whether people vaccinate or not, regardless of lockdowns or no lockdowns or any form of restriction or division. People will continue to die, vaccinated or not, though just at seasonally lower levels until it fades into the viral background. As time goes by treatments will improve but as we see with flu, it will continue to hasten the end of those on their last legs and with failing immune systems we can only do so much. The NHS is not being 'overloaded' by covid and anyone looking at the statistics will see that. The problems within the NHS are real but they are far more related to generational policy. A surgeon I know personally thinks it only has ten years left in its current form and that politicians just haven't been honest with the general public over realities like retirements. Previous politicians have been negligent to practically criminality levels.....the disincentive to plan properly for the longer term being one of the weaknesses of democracy. The unvaccinated will continue to catch covid along with everything else, just like you will. The vast majority of them will survive it with no long term health consequences. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 12.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

07 Dec 21 12.41pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What's the logic here?

Surely for those of us who have been double jabbed and boosted, catching Omicron won't add anything significant to our future protection against another variant?

If the unvaccinated catch it then not only will they suffer more, and overload the NHS as a consequence, any subsequent protection will fade away after a while. We can have more booster jabs, but they won't.

Are you anticipating some kind of herd immunity will develop?

Herd immunity is developing regardless of whether people vaccinate or not, regardless of lockdowns or no lockdowns or any form of restriction or division.

People will continue to die, vaccinated or not, though just at seasonally lower levels until it fades into the viral background. As time goes by treatments will improve but as we see with flu, it will continue to hasten the end of those on their last legs and with failing immune systems we can only do so much.

The NHS is not being 'overloaded' by covid and anyone looking at the statistics will see that. The problems within the NHS are real but they are far more related to generational policy. A surgeon I know personally thinks it only has ten years left in its current form and that politicians just haven't been honest with the general public over realities like retirements. Previous politicians have been negligent to practically criminality levels.....the disincentive to plan properly for the longer term being one of the weaknesses of democracy.

The unvaccinated will continue to catch covid along with everything else, just like you will. The vast majority of them will survive it with no long term health consequences.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 12.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

The Dolphin 07 Dec 21 1.05pm
I am with you 100% Stirling!
Alert a moderator to this post

The Dolphin

07 Dec 21 1.05pm

I am with you 100% Stirling!

Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 21 1.37pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Herd immunity is developing regardless of whether people vaccinate or not, regardless of lockdowns or no lockdowns or any form of restriction or division. People will continue to die, vaccinated or not, though just at seasonally lower levels until it fades into the viral background. As time goes by treatments will improve but as we see with flu, it will continue to hasten the end of those on their last legs and with failing immune systems we can only do so much. The NHS is not being 'overloaded' by covid and anyone looking at the statistics will see that. The problems within the NHS are real but they are far more related to generational policy. A surgeon I know personally thinks it only has ten years left in its current form and that politicians just haven't been honest with the general public over realities like retirements. Previous politicians have been negligent to practically criminality levels.....the disincentive to plan properly for the longer term being one of the weaknesses of democracy. The unvaccinated will continue to catch covid along with everything else, just like you will. The vast majority of them will survive it with no long term health consequences. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 12.48pm) That people will continue to die is clearly true. So though is that the unvaccinated will die in proportionately higher numbers AND require more NHS resource devoted to them. You try telling the people on the front line of the NHS that it isn't over-loaded. It is every winter and having Covid to deal with takes it to breaking point. Anything which makes that worse, like having to treat the unvaccinated when they were fit and able to get the vaccine, is irresponsible behaviour, for which all the "free to make up my own mind" excuses cut no ice at all. That the NHS is in crisis, and criticisms of past political decisions valid, is an irrelevant diversion. It is a perfectly reasonable subject to debate, but it does not excuse avoidable, irresponsible behaviour which is making a difficult situation worse. That the unvaccinated will continue to catch, and survive it, is besides the point. They won't demand the NHS resources nearly as much as those who refuse the vaccines. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 21 1.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Herd immunity is developing regardless of whether people vaccinate or not, regardless of lockdowns or no lockdowns or any form of restriction or division.

People will continue to die, vaccinated or not, though just at seasonally lower levels until it fades into the viral background. As time goes by treatments will improve but as we see with flu, it will continue to hasten the end of those on their last legs and with failing immune systems we can only do so much.

The NHS is not being 'overloaded' by covid and anyone looking at the statistics will see that. The problems within the NHS are real but they are far more related to generational policy. A surgeon I know personally thinks it only has ten years left in its current form and that politicians just haven't been honest with the general public over realities like retirements. Previous politicians have been negligent to practically criminality levels.....the disincentive to plan properly for the longer term being one of the weaknesses of democracy.

The unvaccinated will continue to catch covid along with everything else, just like you will. The vast majority of them will survive it with no long term health consequences.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 12.48pm)

That people will continue to die is clearly true. So though is that the unvaccinated will die in proportionately higher numbers AND require more NHS resource devoted to them.

You try telling the people on the front line of the NHS that it isn't over-loaded. It is every winter and having Covid to deal with takes it to breaking point. Anything which makes that worse, like having to treat the unvaccinated when they were fit and able to get the vaccine, is irresponsible behaviour, for which all the "free to make up my own mind" excuses cut no ice at all.

That the NHS is in crisis, and criticisms of past political decisions valid, is an irrelevant diversion. It is a perfectly reasonable subject to debate, but it does not excuse avoidable, irresponsible behaviour which is making a difficult situation worse.

That the unvaccinated will continue to catch, and survive it, is besides the point. They won't demand the NHS resources nearly as much as those who refuse the vaccines.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 07 Dec 21 1.48pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That people will continue to die is clearly true. So though is that the unvaccinated will die in proportionately higher numbers AND require more NHS resource devoted to them. You try telling the people on the front line of the NHS that it isn't over-loaded. It is every winter and having Covid to deal with takes it to breaking point. Anything which makes that worse, like having to treat the unvaccinated when they were fit and able to get the vaccine, is irresponsible behaviour, for which all the "free to make up my own mind" excuses cut no ice at all. That the NHS is in crisis, and criticisms of past political decisions valid, is an irrelevant diversion. It is a perfectly reasonable subject to debate, but it does not excuse avoidable, irresponsible behaviour which is making a difficult situation worse. That the unvaccinated will continue to catch, and survive it, is besides the point. They won't demand the NHS resources nearly as much as those who refuse the vaccines. You are just dealing in hyperbole. You dismiss relevant points as 'besides the point' when in truth it's anything but....reality should factor into decisions....not fear mongering. The stresses on the NHS were far higher last winter and in general before vaccines and when the natural strength of the virus was stronger. Amongst other highly controversial choices (lockdowns, liberty restrictions, dishonest propaganda campaigns) The government responded with creating more NHS provision as its response....much of it was found not to be required. They decided to divert a huge raft of NHS resources and delay vital and life changing provision. It's very unfortunate but I pretty convinced that it wasn't a proportionate response in terms of death risk....the 'stay in and save lives' mantra was also nuts...as I said at the time. Very unfortunately, the proportional diversion of resources will, in my view, be found to be negligent and cause far more deaths than covid could have....again down to unrealistic projections and fear mongering. As you already have cancer you should be well aware of that...cancer is far more statistically deadly especially for our elder generation. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 1.56pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

07 Dec 21 1.48pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That people will continue to die is clearly true. So though is that the unvaccinated will die in proportionately higher numbers AND require more NHS resource devoted to them.

That the unvaccinated will continue to catch, and survive it, is besides the point. They won't demand the NHS resources nearly as much as those who refuse the vaccines.

You are just dealing in hyperbole. You dismiss relevant points as 'besides the point' when in truth it's anything but....reality should factor into decisions....not fear mongering.

The stresses on the NHS were far higher last winter and in general before vaccines and when the natural strength of the virus was stronger.

Amongst other highly controversial choices (lockdowns, liberty restrictions, dishonest propaganda campaigns) The government responded with creating more NHS provision as its response....much of it was found not to be required. They decided to divert a huge raft of NHS resources and delay vital and life changing provision. It's very unfortunate but I pretty convinced that it wasn't a proportionate response in terms of death risk....the 'stay in and save lives' mantra was also nuts...as I said at the time.

Very unfortunately, the proportional diversion of resources will, in my view, be found to be negligent and cause far more deaths than covid could have....again down to unrealistic projections and fear mongering. As you already have cancer you should be well aware of that...cancer is far more statistically deadly especially for our elder generation.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 1.56pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 07 Dec 21 2.08pm
Amid fear mongering from certain posters lets be reminded that the government built new NHS hospitals specifically to treat projected covid cases before we had vaccines. Even at this time that provision was found to be a vast over prediction and those hospitals were either dismantled or re-directed to other provision. Again, the latest figures show 7300 hospitalizations out of a population of near 70 million. The hyperbole is in stark contrast to the actual statistics and trends. I'm unvaccinated, that was my choice and I haven't been in a hospital as I imagine is the high majority of people who catch covid....and I will catch it again and again, just as we all will catch it.....Just as we catch flu....and in reality beat off flu infection most winters of their lives, that will be the same here. As Bluejay and others have said, those that are vulnerable should take precautions now that they are available. As for the young and healthy, it's their decision....medically they have effectively been encouraged to take newly developed vaccines for others as the average age of death is still over 80. This isn't rational and it has never happened in our medical history. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 2.17pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

07 Dec 21 2.08pm

Amid fear mongering from certain posters lets be reminded that the government built new NHS hospitals specifically to treat projected covid cases before we had vaccines. Even at this time that provision was found to be a vast over prediction and those hospitals were either dismantled or re-directed to other provision.

Again, the latest figures show 7300 hospitalizations out of a population of near 70 million. The hyperbole is in stark contrast to the actual statistics and trends.

I'm unvaccinated, that was my choice and I haven't been in a hospital as I imagine is the high majority of people who catch covid....and I will catch it again and again, just as we all will catch it.....Just as we catch flu....and in reality beat off flu infection most winters of their lives, that will be the same here.

As Bluejay and others have said, those that are vulnerable should take precautions now that they are available. As for the young and healthy, it's their decision....medically they have effectively been encouraged to take newly developed vaccines for others as the average age of death is still over 80. This isn't rational and it has never happened in our medical history.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 2.17pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 21 2.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You are just dealing in hyperbole. You dismiss relevant points as 'besides the point' when in truth it's anything but....reality should factor into decisions....not fear mongering. The stresses on the NHS were far higher last winter and in general before vaccines and when the natural strength of the virus was stronger. Amongst other highly controversial choices (lockdowns, liberty restrictions, dishonest propaganda campaigns) The government responded with creating more NHS provision as its response....much of it was found not to be required. They decided to divert a huge raft of NHS resources and delay vital and life changing provision. It's very unfortunate but I pretty convinced that it wasn't a proportionate response in terms of death risk....the 'stay in and save lives' mantra was also nuts...as I said at the time. Very unfortunately, the proportional diversion of resources will, in my view, be found to be negligent and cause far more deaths than covid could have....again down to unrealistic projections and fear mongering. As you already have cancer you should be well aware of that...cancer is far more statistically deadly especially for our elder generation. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 1.56pm) You are, once again, deliberately seeking to divert and thus avoid the point. For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything you say about the initial response is true. It isn't, but we can leave that debate aside because it has NOTHING AT ALL, to do with the central issue. Which is that the unvaccinated are demanding a far higher proportion of NHS resource to deal with Covid infection than the vaccinated, thus placing the NHS under greater stress than they need to be. Greater stress means less resource for other services, including my cancer and your shoulder. This is what is under discussion. Not whether the stress this winter is greater, or less, than last. Which we don't yet know, but empirically it feels worse. The ambulance queues outside A & E are longer and more frequent. The wait times for beds is longer. Staff are leaving. Constant stress strains them too. If you are able to make, even a slight difference, then you should. That's the point. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 21 2.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You are just dealing in hyperbole. You dismiss relevant points as 'besides the point' when in truth it's anything but....reality should factor into decisions....not fear mongering.

The stresses on the NHS were far higher last winter and in general before vaccines and when the natural strength of the virus was stronger.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 1.56pm)

You are, once again, deliberately seeking to divert and thus avoid the point.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything you say about the initial response is true. It isn't, but we can leave that debate aside because it has NOTHING AT ALL, to do with the central issue.

Which is that the unvaccinated are demanding a far higher proportion of NHS resource to deal with Covid infection than the vaccinated, thus placing the NHS under greater stress than they need to be. Greater stress means less resource for other services, including my cancer and your shoulder.

This is what is under discussion. Not whether the stress this winter is greater, or less, than last. Which we don't yet know, but empirically it feels worse. The ambulance queues outside A & E are longer and more frequent. The wait times for beds is longer. Staff are leaving. Constant stress strains them too.

If you are able to make, even a slight difference, then you should. That's the point.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Dec 21 2.43pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You are, once again, deliberately seeking to divert and thus avoid the point. For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything you say about the initial response is true. It isn't, but we can leave that debate aside because it has NOTHING AT ALL, to do with the central issue. Which is that the unvaccinated are demanding a far higher proportion of NHS resource to deal with Covid infection than the vaccinated, thus placing the NHS under greater stress than they need to be. Greater stress means less resource for other services, including my cancer and your shoulder. This is what is under discussion. Not whether the stress this winter is greater, or less, than last. Which we don't yet know, but empirically it feels worse. The ambulance queues outside A & E are longer and more frequent. The wait times for beds is longer. Staff are leaving. Constant stress strains them too. If you are able to make, even a slight difference, then you should. That's the point. Yes, the number of unvaccinated in hospital per unvaccinated people is higher and if they were all vaccinated then it would bring numbers in hospitals to much more manageable levels. Regardless of what anyone thinks of this the inability to grasp the numbers and that the hospitals aren’t ‘’full up’’ with one or the other is as concerning regarding the IQ level in this country. The TV doctors and presenters don’t help either knowingly or unknowingly ramping up the fear or anger with the ‘hospitals are full up with’’ claims. Edited by Rudi Hedman (07 Dec 2021 3.03pm) COYP
Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Dec 21 2.43pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are, once again, deliberately seeking to divert and thus avoid the point.

Which is that the unvaccinated are demanding a far higher proportion of NHS resource to deal with Covid infection than the vaccinated, thus placing the NHS under greater stress than they need to be. Greater stress means less resource for other services, including my cancer and your shoulder.

If you are able to make, even a slight difference, then you should. That's the point.

Yes, the number of unvaccinated in hospital per unvaccinated people is higher and if they were all vaccinated then it would bring numbers in hospitals to much more manageable levels. Regardless of what anyone thinks of this the inability to grasp the numbers and that the hospitals aren’t ‘’full up’’ with one or the other is as concerning regarding the IQ level in this country. The TV doctors and presenters don’t help either knowingly or unknowingly ramping up the fear or anger with the ‘hospitals are full up with’’ claims.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (07 Dec 2021 3.03pm)

COYP

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 07 Dec 21 2.45pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You are, once again, deliberately seeking to divert and thus avoid the point. For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything you say about the initial response is true. It isn't, but we can leave that debate aside because it has NOTHING AT ALL, to do with the central issue. Which is that the unvaccinated are demanding a far higher proportion of NHS resource to deal with Covid infection than the vaccinated, thus placing the NHS under greater stress than they need to be. Greater stress means less resource for other services, including my cancer and your shoulder. This is what is under discussion. Not whether the stress this winter is greater, or less, than last. Which we don't yet know, but empirically it feels worse. The ambulance queues outside A & E are longer and more frequent. The wait times for beds is longer. Staff are leaving. Constant stress strains them too. If you are able to make, even a slight difference, then you should. That's the point. Apparently what I said wasn't accurate, ok....being specific might help. Anyway your contention that people must modify their life to reduce stresses on the NHS seems upside down. The NHS is there to provide provision for how the population choose to live their life....for example no one ever banned people from smoking fags did they. Sure, proportionally unvaccinated people will take up more resources than the vaccinated.....people who have heart attacks via lifestyle choices will also take up more resources than those eating one meal a day. This knowledge should be common sense.....are you going to criticise and demand people stop drinking or eating burgers or indeed anything unhealthy? Indeed, these things are allowed by the state in the knowledge that they cause hospitalizations and death on far larger scales than covid...indeed the state takes its economic tax take from it. Are you going to criticise people using cars when they could use public transport because cars cause death and injury in higher proportion? I could go on. Once you travel down your road you run into simple realities of liberty which when reduced don't reflect a free society. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 2.49pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

07 Dec 21 2.45pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are, once again, deliberately seeking to divert and thus avoid the point.

If you are able to make, even a slight difference, then you should. That's the point.

Apparently what I said wasn't accurate, ok....being specific might help.

Anyway your contention that people must modify their life to reduce stresses on the NHS seems upside down. The NHS is there to provide provision for how the population choose to live their life....for example no one ever banned people from smoking fags did they.

Sure, proportionally unvaccinated people will take up more resources than the vaccinated.....people who have heart attacks via lifestyle choices will also take up more resources than those eating one meal a day.

This knowledge should be common sense.....are you going to criticise and demand people stop drinking or eating burgers or indeed anything unhealthy? Indeed, these things are allowed by the state in the knowledge that they cause hospitalizations and death on far larger scales than covid...indeed the state takes its economic tax take from it.

Are you going to criticise people using cars when they could use public transport because cars cause death and injury in higher proportion?

I could go on.

Once you travel down your road you run into simple realities of liberty which when reduced don't reflect a free society.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 2.49pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Dec 21 2.59pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle There was a huge surge in home delivery here at the start of the pandemic, but that has dropped off considerably, although I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the rise again. I am already aware of people being more cautious, opening doors and windows, backing out of Christmas parties etc. Is that similar is London? Home delivery demand dropped off once vaccinations started. Older people like shopping. Depends on the location and brand/market positioning of supermarkets firstly. In addition to that I’ve already posted that from what I’ve noticed it’s mainly people I’d think were ignorant and people to avoid before covid because they don’t care about anything and sometimes not even themselves, whereas before non mask compliance it was a broader range of people. The more built up or closer you go to London the more people don’t care or whatever the reason is, and that’s where the situation has and will be worse. But apparently poverty is THE reason and we should all be ashamed. It’s puzzling really. More rural areas or with more space and the masks are on. Busier places and the masks are off. Personal choice or responsibility ok. Just don’t complain if you or a relative/friend suffers. I expect there’s more work parties being cancelled in cities because of numbers and they’re in cities. Having lateral flow tests at the door of your party would solve this concern as much as is possible, or you cancel every December. Couldn’t answer on windows and doors. Edited by Rudi Hedman (07 Dec 2021 3.05pm) COYP
Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Dec 21 2.59pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There was a huge surge in home delivery here at the start of the pandemic, but that has dropped off considerably, although I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the rise again. I am already aware of people being more cautious, opening doors and windows, backing out of Christmas parties etc.

Is that similar is London?

Home delivery demand dropped off once vaccinations started. Older people like shopping. Depends on the location and brand/market positioning of supermarkets firstly. In addition to that I’ve already posted that from what I’ve noticed it’s mainly people I’d think were ignorant and people to avoid before covid because they don’t care about anything and sometimes not even themselves, whereas before non mask compliance it was a broader range of people. The more built up or closer you go to London the more people don’t care or whatever the reason is, and that’s where the situation has and will be worse. But apparently poverty is THE reason and we should all be ashamed. It’s puzzling really. More rural areas or with more space and the masks are on. Busier places and the masks are off. Personal choice or responsibility ok. Just don’t complain if you or a relative/friend suffers.

I expect there’s more work parties being cancelled in cities because of numbers and they’re in cities. Having lateral flow tests at the door of your party would solve this concern as much as is possible, or you cancel every December. Couldn’t answer on windows and doors.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (07 Dec 2021 3.05pm)

COYP

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 07 Dec 21 3.08pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Home delivery demand dropped off once vaccinations started. Older people like shopping. Depends on the location and brand/market positioning of supermarkets firstly. In addition to that I’ve already posted that from what I’ve noticed it’s mainly people I’d think were ignorant and people to avoid before covid because they don’t care about anything and sometimes not even themselves, whereas before non mask compliance it was a broader range of people. The more built up or closer you go to London the more people don’t care or whatever the reason is, and that’s where the situation has and will be worse. But apparently poverty is THE reason and we should all be ashamed. It’s puzzling really. More rural areas or with more space and the masks are on. Busier places and the masks are off. Personal Chou d or responsibility ok. Just don’t complain if you or a relative/friend suffers. I expect there’s more work parties being cancelled in cities because of numbers and they’re in cities. Having lateral flow tests at the door of your party would solve this concern as much as is possible, or you cancel every December. Couldn’t answer on windows and doors. It's probably true that in built up areas a significant number of people realise that trying to avoid the virus is unrealistic and so they don't bother.....if you travel daily on the tube for example shoulder to shoulder during busy periods wearing a mask is like going swimming in shorts but expecting to stay dry. As for them wearing masks for the benefit of others, perhaps some of them feel that altruism in society isn't really how society is run....and so feels opportunistic and fake. Personally I wear a mask where it is mandated out of respect for those expected to enforce these unfortunate orders. However, I realise that I'm cucking out of social norm requirements rather than living my principles there. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 3.14pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

07 Dec 21 3.08pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Home delivery demand dropped off once vaccinations started. Older people like shopping. Depends on the location and brand/market positioning of supermarkets firstly. In addition to that I’ve already posted that from what I’ve noticed it’s mainly people I’d think were ignorant and people to avoid before covid because they don’t care about anything and sometimes not even themselves, whereas before non mask compliance it was a broader range of people. The more built up or closer you go to London the more people don’t care or whatever the reason is, and that’s where the situation has and will be worse. But apparently poverty is THE reason and we should all be ashamed. It’s puzzling really. More rural areas or with more space and the masks are on. Busier places and the masks are off. Personal Chou d or responsibility ok. Just don’t complain if you or a relative/friend suffers.

It's probably true that in built up areas a significant number of people realise that trying to avoid the virus is unrealistic and so they don't bother.....if you travel daily on the tube for example shoulder to shoulder during busy periods wearing a mask is like going swimming in shorts but expecting to stay dry.

As for them wearing masks for the benefit of others, perhaps some of them feel that altruism in society isn't really how society is run....and so feels opportunistic and fake.

Personally I wear a mask where it is mandated out of respect for those expected to enforce these unfortunate orders. However, I realise that I'm cucking out of social norm requirements rather than living my principles there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2021 3.14pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 21 3.12pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I think you might mean disproportionately more. The number of unvaccinated in hospital per unvaccinated people is higher and if they were all vaccinated then it would bring numbers in hospitals to much more manageable levels. Regardless of what anyone thinks of this the inability to grasp the numbers and that the hospitals aren’t ‘’full up’’ with one or the other is as concerning regarding the IQ level in this country. The doctors and presenters don’t help either knowingly or unknowingly ramping up the fear or anger with the ‘full up with’’ claims. This is the essential point. Whether the hospitals are "full up" is always going to be a matter of opinion, and vary from place to place. The public being told that to encourage them to take all the preventative measures makes sense, but also seems sensible. What is clear is the impact the pandemic, and the steps taken to combat it, has had on the NHS. It's ability to cope with other things has been badly impacted and anything we can do, like getting vaccinated, that will help it to help us, ought to be done. By everyone, even the reluctant and the selfish. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 21 3.12pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I think you might mean disproportionately more. The number of unvaccinated in hospital per unvaccinated people is higher and if they were all vaccinated then it would bring numbers in hospitals to much more manageable levels. Regardless of what anyone thinks of this the inability to grasp the numbers and that the hospitals aren’t ‘’full up’’ with one or the other is as concerning regarding the IQ level in this country. The doctors and presenters don’t help either knowingly or unknowingly ramping up the fear or anger with the ‘full up with’’ claims.

This is the essential point.

Whether the hospitals are "full up" is always going to be a matter of opinion, and vary from place to place. The public being told that to encourage them to take all the preventative measures makes sense, but also seems sensible. What is clear is the impact the pandemic, and the steps taken to combat it, has had on the NHS. It's ability to cope with other things has been badly impacted and anything we can do, like getting vaccinated, that will help it to help us, ought to be done. By everyone, even the reluctant and the selfish.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Dec 21 3.18pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's probably true that in built up areas a significant number of people realise that trying to avoid the virus is unrealistic and so they don't bother. As for them wearing masks for the benefit of others, perhaps some of them feel that altruism in society isn't really how society is run....and so feels opportunistic and fake. I agree and am aware of this. Where’s the help when people in built up areas needed it in the past, plus they put food on the table without 100% work from home safety. But during December I did expect a bit of a change due to numbers. Maybe I just view areas that are built up as pretty grim because of the general atmosphere these days compared to the past. Or maybe the more built up an area becomes, the less people care or acknowledge anyone else. The North v South argument and boy have I noticed more people I don’t like as time goes on. COYP
Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Dec 21 3.18pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's probably true that in built up areas a significant number of people realise that trying to avoid the virus is unrealistic and so they don't bother.

As for them wearing masks for the benefit of others, perhaps some of them feel that altruism in society isn't really how society is run....and so feels opportunistic and fake.

I agree and am aware of this. Where’s the help when people in built up areas needed it in the past, plus they put food on the table without 100% work from home safety. But during December I did expect a bit of a change due to numbers. Maybe I just view areas that are built up as pretty grim because of the general atmosphere these days compared to the past. Or maybe the more built up an area becomes, the less people care or acknowledge anyone else. The North v South argument and boy have I noticed more people I don’t like as time goes on.

COYP

Alert a moderator to this post

Topic Locked

Page 1001 of 1255 < 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Coronavirus (LOCKED)

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors