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Matov 03 Jan 24 6.52am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Sadly we are going to experience it due to apathy and a change is as good as a rest mentality. As opposed to what? This is the bit I struggle with. Does it mean that 10,000s of thousands of illegal immigrants will wash up on our shores unopposed? Or that foreign courts are still allowed jurisdiction? Or that it will be a crime to call out a bloke for pretending to be a woman? The Tories cannot be simply voted for anymore because they are not Labour. The last 14 years have showed them up as being the most unprincipled party in British politics. I am not voting for any of them but I refused to be cowed by the idea that Labour will be worse. And if they are, then good. Because it might finally shake this country out of its inertia. The Tories are not the answer. Neither is Labour. But until people wake up to that, nothing will get better. So maybe it has to get a worse first.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Badger11 Beckenham 03 Jan 24 7.59am | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
A new offence of defrauding the public purse max 10 years - Starmer. Sounds like the tories ought to be ordering a fleet of small boats going the other way......
Hear hear I'm fine with MPs and Lords being jailed alongside people who commit benefit fraud, for which the courts are far too lenient.
One more point |
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Hrolf The Ganger 03 Jan 24 2.03pm | |
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Looks like the election campaigning has started already. Reform wants to prevent 'Starmergeddon' and the Liberals have unleashed the 'Sunak removal' wagon. Unless people realise that only an actual vote for change will produce one, then we will be stuck where we are again and again. Reform might not win an election this time, but a dozen seats will make a big difference in Parliament, especially if Labour win with a modest majority. It could be a catalyst to grow a legitimate right of centre party.
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Stirlingsays 03 Jan 24 2.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Looks like the election campaigning has started already. Reform wants to prevent 'Starmergeddon' and the Liberals have unleashed the 'Sunak removal' wagon. Unless people realise that only an actual vote for change will produce one, then we will be stuck where we are again and again. Reform might not win an election this time, but a dozen seats will make a big difference in Parliament, especially if Labour win with a modest majority. It could be a catalyst to grow a legitimate right of centre party. Yep, once I heard they are putting up a candidate it looks like I'll actually be voting for them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Jan 24 2.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Looks like the election campaigning has started already. Reform wants to prevent 'Starmergeddon' and the Liberals have unleashed the 'Sunak removal' wagon. Unless people realise that only an actual vote for change will produce one, then we will be stuck where we are again and again. Reform might not win an election this time, but a dozen seats will make a big difference in Parliament, especially if Labour win with a modest majority. It could be a catalyst to grow a legitimate right of centre party. It needs to happen. Not because they have a cat in hell’s chance of ever forming a government but because it’s the only legitimate way for those whose views they represent can be heard. Only then can we really know how much support they have. Trying to occupy the Tory Party and force it further and further to the right was always dishonest. These people deserve and need a voice. Just not a megaphone.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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silvertop Portishead 03 Jan 24 2.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Looks like the election campaigning has started already. Reform wants to prevent 'Starmergeddon' and the Liberals have unleashed the 'Sunak removal' wagon. Unless people realise that only an actual vote for change will produce one, then we will be stuck where we are again and again. Reform might not win an election this time, but a dozen seats will make a big difference in Parliament, especially if Labour win with a modest majority. It could be a catalyst to grow a legitimate right of centre party. I think you gauge the Red Wall correct. However, when faced with a stark choice between getting Brexit done and a dithering Labour they bought the gimmick. Absent this, the right vote will be split and a bouyant Labour should sail in. Indeed the rise of Reform and collapse of the SNP should see a Labour landslide.
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Hrolf The Ganger 03 Jan 24 2.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It needs to happen. Not because they have a cat in hell’s chance of ever forming a government but because it’s the only legitimate way for those whose views they represent can be heard. Only then can we really know how much support they have. Trying to occupy the Tory Party and force it further and further to the right was always dishonest. These people deserve and need a voice. Just not a megaphone.
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Hrolf The Ganger 03 Jan 24 2.44pm | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
I think you gauge the Red Wall correct. However, when faced with a stark choice between getting Brexit done and a dithering Labour they bought the gimmick. Absent this, the right vote will be split and a bouyant Labour should sail in. Indeed the rise of Reform and collapse of the SNP should see a Labour landslide. I think that Reform need to target Labour voters as best they can. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (03 Jan 2024 2.45pm)
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 03 Jan 24 3.24pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
As opposed to what? This is the bit I struggle with. Does it mean that 10,000s of thousands of illegal immigrants will wash up on our shores unopposed? Or that foreign courts are still allowed jurisdiction? Or that it will be a crime to call out a bloke for pretending to be a woman? The Tories cannot be simply voted for anymore because they are not Labour. The last 14 years have showed them up as being the most unprincipled party in British politics. I am not voting for any of them but I refused to be cowed by the idea that Labour will be worse. And if they are, then good. Because it might finally shake this country out of its inertia. The Tories are not the answer. Neither is Labour. But until people wake up to that, nothing will get better. So maybe it has to get a worse first. Well said - as things stand, I will vote Green or not at all.
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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 03 Jan 24 3.35pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Well said - as things stand, I will vote Green or not at all. Sounds reasonable and second the praise for Matov's post.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Jan 24 3.49pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Well said - as things stand, I will vote Green or not at all. Greens, Labour, Lib Dems all anathema to me. In the final analysis I have a hide akin to a Pangolin's undercarriage and perhaps they could have referred to me as 'Deck chair' as I don't fold under pressure.
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Badger11 Beckenham 03 Jan 24 3.53pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Well said - as things stand, I will vote Green or not at all. I genuinely do not understand what their policies are. I get they want a clean environment but they seem to be against everything and for nothing practical. So until they make an effort to come out with some sensible policies they are just a bunch of protestors.
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