If only it was that easy!

We are trying to stop the illegals. It's not a lack of desire, it's the scale and complexity of the task, together with our obligations under international conventions, that is the problem. Determined people will usually find a way around whatever barriers are erected, given enough time. This needs to be done at source and not at the destination. Which is why we require the willing help of our neighbours and of those countries which serve as the entry points. I know you don't like hearing it, but Brexit hasn't helped us at all.

Passing it back to local embassies is, regrettably, impractical. Visas used to be handled this way (Spiderman will be able to speak more authoritatively than me) but has now been placed in the hands of commercial agencies who ensure all the documentation is correct before the decisions are taken remotely. Staff numbers at embassies are no longer sufficient, or skilled enough, to deal with this.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (11 Nov 2021 3.14pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Victor Orban, the pillar of democracy. Who heads a regime accused of suppressing a free press, but still admired by some who frequently moan about freedom of speech being undermined.

Who is accused of hosting, and praising, ex Nazis.

Who is accused of blatant antisemitism.

Sure, he could sort it out. Anyone prepared to sink all the boats and put those who escaped into concentration camps could sort it out.

If that's conservatism, then you can keep it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

For the umpteenth squared time, I am not, by any kind of reasonable understanding of the term, a "leftist". Only those on the furthest outer orbit of right wing political thought, regard those who take even a slightly less extreme view than themselves, as "leftists".

I know you advocate freedom of speech. You bleat about it here too often for that to go unnoticed. Here you are though supporting Orban who restricts it. Hypocrisy on full view.

I, too, support free speech, just so long as what is said isn't illegal or dangerous. There are no unrestricted rights in any democracy. Laws impose responsibilities alongside the protection of rights.

I have never suggested that Gab be closed. All I have ever recommended is that moderation be required, which ensures that the illegal or dangerous are removed.

Of course, I supported Trump losing his social media platforms. Not because of his politics. Because he spread demonstrable untruths and encouraged others to believe things that were untrue. That the privately owned social media businesses decided Trump's lies needed to be exorcised was their right, and a huge step forward.

The scourge of misinformation circulating on social media continues to this day. Only this morning, I received a video purporting to show VP Harris stating that all those now dying from Covid were vaccinated. That it had been tampered with, and what she actually said was precisely the opposite, didn't stop it being widely believed.

That's not free speech. That's dangerous speech, and it has to be dealt with. It needs to be moderated out or, at the very least, detailed rebuttals given appropriate prominence.

I didn't accuse you of supporting Nazis. You support Orban, and HE appears to support Nazis.

I have never said that either there isn't a problem, or that there isn't a solution. I won't repeat the solution again. You can find it in previous posts if you really want to.

Are the grooming gangs exclusively the product of illegal immigration, which is what we are discussing? I suspect many, probably most, arrived here perfectly legally but am prepared to be proved wrong.

Chucking in Khan and knife crime, as a favourite whataboutism, is hardly relevant to this, is it?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

But Khan is a w***er of a Gold standard. You clearly haven't had to cross London lately I guess. When you do please let me know it hasn't been f***ed up to the empth degree.

This post is a perfect example of the ad hominem.

Used when a poster has no answers to the points being made, so resorts to personal attacks.

That it's a very familiar response here is unfortunate, but nevertheless pretty disappointing.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

That’s just another ad hominem! Call someone a "liar", "dishonest" and "hypocritical" but refuse to say how or where.

I believe you are all of those things, but do try to point out why.

The only point of agreement is that I am quite happy for others to read and think it through. Even though I doubt whether your colleagues in the sorry little extreme right cabal that you inhabit here will publicly acknowledge anything but contempt for me, and reverence for you, I am content that privately a few might get the points. That's enough.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.