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Bearcage Welling 04 Sep 21 11.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Going round in circles here, I queried specific points made and I wanted statistical evidence for it.....but never mind. I'm not looking to argue, I was more curious. I think we can all agree that the vaccines reduce deaths and I'm happy to leave it at that. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.00pm) Here’s some figures for you then: - Two doses Oxford/AstraZeneca were 67% effective against infection with Delta, while two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech were 80% effective. - COVID-19 Infection Survey participants who became infected post-vaccination were less likely to have symptoms. - Two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine are estimated to be 96% and 92% effective against hospitalisation with the Delta variant, respectively.
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Bearcage

Welling 04 Sep 21 11.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Going round in circles here, I queried specific points made and I wanted statistical evidence for it.....but never mind. I'm not looking to argue, I was more curious.

I think we can all agree that the vaccines reduce deaths and I'm happy to leave it at that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.00pm)

Here’s some figures for you then:
- Two doses Oxford/AstraZeneca were 67% effective against infection with Delta, while two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech were 80% effective.
- COVID-19 Infection Survey participants who became infected post-vaccination were less likely to have symptoms.
- Two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine are estimated to be 96% and 92% effective against hospitalisation with the Delta variant, respectively.

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Stirlingsays 04 Sep 21 11.29pm
Originally posted by Bearcage Here’s some figures for you then: - Two doses Oxford/AstraZeneca were 67% effective against infection with Delta, while two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech were 80% effective. - COVID-19 Infection Survey participants who became infected post-vaccination were less likely to have symptoms. - Two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine are estimated to be 96% and 92% effective against hospitalisation with the Delta variant, respectively. If that first point is accurate, it certainly is assuring. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.32pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

04 Sep 21 11.29pm

Originally posted by Bearcage

If that first point is accurate, it certainly is assuring.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.32pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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eaglesdare 04 Sep 21 11.31pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC It's a focking pain and expensive too. Exacerbated by no one actually looking at them. I did it in May, was not checked. Then back from Denmark, was not checked. My tests in England were 90 Each, I think. Boots do them for 65 quid! I've had two tests this week! But got them back late! (Both negative) So I have given up and I am flying to Belfast tomorrow as I don't need a PCR test and will just get the bus down to Dublin!
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eaglesdare

04 Sep 21 11.31pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

It's a focking pain and expensive too. Exacerbated by no one actually looking at them. I did it in May, was not checked. Then back from Denmark, was not checked. My tests in England were 90 Each, I think.

Boots do them for 65 quid! I've had two tests this week! But got them back late! (Both negative)

So I have given up and I am flying to Belfast tomorrow as I don't need a PCR test and will just get the bus down to Dublin!

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Bearcage Welling 04 Sep 21 11.42pm
Originally posted by Vaibow You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia. asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill. we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard. If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too... those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react. So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else.. woken up yet? COVID-19 is the infection/disease caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2. The vaccine does NOT infect you with COVID-19. Vaccines do not contain the pathogen, instead they contain the blueprint for producing antigens (rather than the antigen itself) or weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Regardless of whether the vaccine is made up of the antigen itself or the blueprint so that the body will produce the antigen, this will not cause the disease in the person receiving the vaccine, but it will prompt their immune system to respond much as it would have on its first reaction to the actual pathogen. So someone who is vaccinated does not have the pathogen, and so cannot pass it to someone else.
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Bearcage

Welling 04 Sep 21 11.42pm

Originally posted by Vaibow

You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia.

asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill.

we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard.

If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too...

those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react.

So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else..

woken up yet?

COVID-19 is the infection/disease caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2.

The vaccine does NOT infect you with COVID-19.
Vaccines do not contain the pathogen, instead they contain the blueprint for producing antigens (rather than the antigen itself) or weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Regardless of whether the vaccine is made up of the antigen itself or the blueprint so that the body will produce the antigen, this will not cause the disease in the person receiving the vaccine, but it will prompt their immune system to respond much as it would have on its first reaction to the actual pathogen.
So someone who is vaccinated does not have the pathogen, and so cannot pass it to someone else.

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Vaibow vancouver/croydon 05 Sep 21 1.53am
Originally posted by Bearcage COVID-19 is the infection/disease caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2. The vaccine does NOT infect you with COVID-19. Vaccines do not contain the pathogen, instead they contain the blueprint for producing antigens (rather than the antigen itself) or weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Regardless of whether the vaccine is made up of the antigen itself or the blueprint so that the body will produce the antigen, this will not cause the disease in the person receiving the vaccine, but it will prompt their immune system to respond much as it would have on its first reaction to the actual pathogen. So someone who is vaccinated does not have the pathogen, and so cannot pass it to someone else. Thats what I said.... Never said the vaccine gives you covid, I said the vaccines makes you produce part of the virus, the spike protein. You do realize pathogen and antigen are the same thing - an organism invading the body. It contains the blue print from an antigen/pathogen, weakened or inactive parts... your words. You can copy and paste s*** all you like, doesn't change the fact. Why do you think so many people feel ill after the jab??? what is happening in the body... The jab makes you produce a protein that is directly linked to the pathogen - your body wants that out, it sheds it. anyways, this is tiresome. you carry on being you. This was once a quality forum....
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Vaibow

vancouver/croydon 05 Sep 21 1.53am

Originally posted by Bearcage

COVID-19 is the infection/disease caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2.

Thats what I said....

Never said the vaccine gives you covid, I said the vaccines makes you produce part of the virus, the spike protein.

You do realize pathogen and antigen are the same thing - an organism invading the body. It contains the blue print from an antigen/pathogen, weakened or inactive parts... your words.

You can copy and paste s*** all you like, doesn't change the fact.

Why do you think so many people feel ill after the jab??? what is happening in the body...

The jab makes you produce a protein that is directly linked to the pathogen - your body wants that out, it sheds it.

anyways, this is tiresome. you carry on being you.

This was once a quality forum....

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BlueJay UK 05 Sep 21 5.03am
Originally posted by Vaibow You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia. asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill. we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard. If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too... those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react. So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else.. woken up yet? Not sure about spreading covid, but you've certainly done your level best over a series of posts to spread BS. Edited by BlueJay (05 Sep 2021 5.50am)
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BlueJay

UK 05 Sep 21 5.03am

Originally posted by Vaibow

You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia.

asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill.

we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard.

If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too...

those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react.

So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else..

woken up yet?

Not sure about spreading covid, but you've certainly done your level best over a series of posts to spread BS.

Edited by BlueJay (05 Sep 2021 5.50am)

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becky over the moon 05 Sep 21 8.15am
There is an entire thread on Covid and the vaccination over on the News/Politics Board. This is Palace Talk - if it refers to the vaccination requirements to go to a match - that's fine, it's what the thread was here to discuss, anything else about the merits/demerits of vaccination belongs on the other thread. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 05 Sep 21 8.15am

There is an entire thread on Covid and the vaccination over on the News/Politics Board.

This is Palace Talk - if it refers to the vaccination requirements to go to a match - that's fine, it's what the thread was here to discuss, anything else about the merits/demerits of vaccination belongs on the other thread.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Eden Eagle Kent 05 Sep 21 8.25am
Originally posted by Bearcage Israel is in accordance with the fact the vaccine reduces the chances of catching COVID-19. It has one of the highest level of vaccinated people (60% of population fully vaccinated, 80% of adults) and amongst the lowest levels of restrictions on movement. The vaccine reduces (but does not eliminate) the chances of getting COVID-19, it also reduces the chances of those who catch it becoming seriously ill or dying. Israel has low restrictions and so more mixing and more COVID-19 cases. Currently it has more people with COVID-19 than it has had at any other time (but if it did not have the high level vaccinated, this would be considerably higher). Also the death rate is less than half it was at the peak at the beginning of the year (before their vaccine program). So you agree that vaccine passports make no sense at all as the vaccinated are catching and spreading the virus.. There is a difference between not getting vaccinated and not wanting to have vaccine passports.
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Eden Eagle

Kent 05 Sep 21 8.25am

Originally posted by Bearcage

Israel is in accordance with the fact the vaccine reduces the chances of catching COVID-19.
It has one of the highest level of vaccinated people (60% of population fully vaccinated, 80% of adults) and amongst the lowest levels of restrictions on movement.
The vaccine reduces (but does not eliminate) the chances of getting COVID-19, it also reduces the chances of those who catch it becoming seriously ill or dying. Israel has low restrictions and so more mixing and more COVID-19 cases. Currently it has more people with COVID-19 than it has had at any other time (but if it did not have the high level vaccinated, this would be considerably higher). Also the death rate is less than half it was at the peak at the beginning of the year (before their vaccine program).

So you agree that vaccine passports make no sense at all as the vaccinated are catching and spreading the virus..

There is a difference between not getting vaccinated and not wanting to have vaccine passports.

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Bearcage Welling 05 Sep 21 9.35am
Originally posted by Eden Eagle So you agree that vaccine passports make no sense at all as the vaccinated are catching and spreading the virus.. There is a difference between not getting vaccinated and not wanting to have vaccine passports. I did not mention vaccine passports, so did not agree or disagree. But, the vaccine clearly reduces the risks to both those vaccinated and those around the vaccinated person (reduces not eliminates). Therefore those not vaccinated present a higher risk. With that fact it would be logical (as well as a legal requirement) for anyone organising an event where a large number of people will be inside in an enclosed space, which is a high risk environment for transmission, to look to measures to reduce risk to that hazard.. Ensuring all those that could have been vaccinated are vaccinated is a measure that could be used, and a vaccine passport is a way of demonstrating this. People have the right not to have the vaccine, however as in doing so they present a greater risk to others than those that do not, those organising and running events and activities open to others have the right to decline them access. You could easily equate the vaccine passport to a full driving license. - Driving of cars presents a hazard to others (as does CV19]; - to reduce the driving risk you can ensure people pass a competence test (or for CV19 receive a vaccine); - to enable those persons to demonstrate they are a lower risk you issue them with a full license (or for CV19 a vaccine passport). So no, as a rationale person who cares about others, I do NOT agree vaccine passports make no sense. I believe the vaccine passport is a logical and reasonable measure, as part of a series of risk reduction measures (for a virus that has, in a relatively short time, killed an estimated 4.5M worldwide, and 130k in the UK, despite all the lockdowns and other control measures imposed); there is clear evidence that the vaccine reduces the likelihood of being infected with CV19, reduces the likelihood of spreading the virus, and reduces the likelihood of the more serious consequences for those who are still become infected post vaccine.
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Bearcage

Welling 05 Sep 21 9.35am

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

So you agree that vaccine passports make no sense at all as the vaccinated are catching and spreading the virus..

There is a difference between not getting vaccinated and not wanting to have vaccine passports.

I did not mention vaccine passports, so did not agree or disagree.

But, the vaccine clearly reduces the risks to both those vaccinated and those around the vaccinated person (reduces not eliminates). Therefore those not vaccinated present a higher risk.

With that fact it would be logical (as well as a legal requirement) for anyone organising an event where a large number of people will be inside in an enclosed space, which is a high risk environment for transmission, to look to measures to reduce risk to that hazard.. Ensuring all those that could have been vaccinated are vaccinated is a measure that could be used, and a vaccine passport is a way of demonstrating this.

People have the right not to have the vaccine, however as in doing so they present a greater risk to others than those that do not, those organising and running events and activities open to others have the right to decline them access.

You could easily equate the vaccine passport to a full driving license.
- Driving of cars presents a hazard to others (as does CV19];
- to reduce the driving risk you can ensure people pass a competence test (or for CV19 receive a vaccine);
- to enable those persons to demonstrate they are a lower risk you issue them with a full license (or for CV19 a vaccine passport).

So no, as a rationale person who cares about others, I do NOT agree vaccine passports make no sense.
I believe the vaccine passport is a logical and reasonable measure, as part of a series of risk reduction measures (for a virus that has, in a relatively short time, killed an estimated 4.5M worldwide, and 130k in the UK, despite all the lockdowns and other control measures imposed); there is clear evidence that the vaccine reduces the likelihood of being infected with CV19, reduces the likelihood of spreading the virus, and reduces the likelihood of the more serious consequences for those who are still become infected post vaccine.

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X20XEV Hampshire 05 Sep 21 10.38am
bottom lime is no one should be in hospital... the smokers, the drinkers, the druggies... the obese, the diabetic... the suidicals, millions of deaths, preventable... you cut that down by half, the health care system frees up so much in terms of space, budget, space.. TB kills 2.5 million annually.... spreads the same way as covid, kills pretty much the same way.. are countries like India on the no fly list.... honestly, at this point people aren't gunny hang their mind... that's fine, but look after yourself, it's no one elses responsibility. ______________________________________________________ The WHO report that 1.4m people died in 2019 from TB, in the UK there are about 6000 cases a year with about 350 dying. Worldwide Covid has killed over 4.5m in less than 2 years. I like many million UK residents had the BCG vaccination at school and that provides 100% immunity against TB for life unless you get something else that weakens your immune system, now most babies receive it shortly after birth. TB is treatable and in the UK most people recover fully. So if you have been vaccinated and only visit India for less that 3 months there is little risk, so there is no need to put India on a no fly list. Check the facts on reputable websites (NHS or WHO) before posting your conspiracy theories.
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X20XEV

Hampshire 05 Sep 21 10.38am

bottom lime is no one should be in hospital... the smokers, the drinkers, the druggies... the obese, the diabetic... the suidicals, millions of deaths, preventable...

you cut that down by half, the health care system frees up so much in terms of space, budget, space..

TB kills 2.5 million annually.... spreads the same way as covid, kills pretty much the same way.. are countries like India on the no fly list....

honestly, at this point people aren't gunny hang their mind... that's fine, but look after yourself, it's no one elses responsibility.

______________________________________________________

The WHO report that 1.4m people died in 2019 from TB, in the UK there are about 6000 cases a year with about 350 dying. Worldwide Covid has killed over 4.5m in less than 2 years.

I like many million UK residents had the BCG vaccination at school and that provides 100% immunity against TB for life unless you get something else that weakens your immune system, now most babies receive it shortly after birth.

TB is treatable and in the UK most people recover fully. So if you have been vaccinated and only visit India for less that 3 months there is little risk, so there is no need to put India on a no fly list.

Check the facts on reputable websites (NHS or WHO) before posting your conspiracy theories.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 21 10.45am
Originally posted by Bearcage I did not mention vaccine passports, so did not agree or disagree. But, the vaccine clearly reduces the risks to both those vaccinated and those around the vaccinated person (reduces not eliminates). Therefore those not vaccinated present a higher risk. With that fact it would be logical (as well as a legal requirement) for anyone organising an event where a large number of people will be inside in an enclosed space, which is a high risk environment for transmission, to look to measures to reduce risk to that hazard.. Ensuring all those that could have been vaccinated are vaccinated is a measure that could be used, and a vaccine passport is a way of demonstrating this. People have the right not to have the vaccine, however as in doing so they present a greater risk to others than those that do not, those organising and running events and activities open to others have the right to decline them access. You could easily equate the vaccine passport to a full driving license. - Driving of cars presents a hazard to others (as does CV19]; - to reduce the driving risk you can ensure people pass a competence test (or for CV19 receive a vaccine); - to enable those persons to demonstrate they are a lower risk you issue them with a full license (or for CV19 a vaccine passport). So no, as a rationale person who cares about others, I do NOT agree vaccine passports make no sense. I believe the vaccine passport is a logical and reasonable measure, as part of a series of risk reduction measures (for a virus that has, in a relatively short time, killed an estimated 4.5M worldwide, and 130k in the UK, despite all the lockdowns and other control measures imposed); there is clear evidence that the vaccine reduces the likelihood of being infected with CV19, reduces the likelihood of spreading the virus, and reduces the likelihood of the more serious consequences for those who are still become infected post vaccine. Vaccine passports. A very slippery slope. ‘Reduces not eliminates.’ Great. Even better is the vaccinated person unaware they’re infecting people while possibly being habitually virtuous when doing so. This is so funny really. People wanting and demanding everyone is vaccinated to go in somewhere but they’re not really safe when they go in there, but they have had the vaccines. I personally think nearly everyone is going to get covid and it will depend on your age, health and/or own choice of whether you have the vaccine. Or we lock the whole world up with enough food for 2 months. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 05 Sep 21 10.45am

Originally posted by Bearcage

I did not mention vaccine passports, so did not agree or disagree.

But, the vaccine clearly reduces the risks to both those vaccinated and those around the vaccinated person (reduces not eliminates). Therefore those not vaccinated present a higher risk.

So no, as a rationale person who cares about others, I do NOT agree vaccine passports make no sense.
I believe the vaccine passport is a logical and reasonable measure, as part of a series of risk reduction measures (for a virus that has, in a relatively short time, killed an estimated 4.5M worldwide, and 130k in the UK, despite all the lockdowns and other control measures imposed); there is clear evidence that the vaccine reduces the likelihood of being infected with CV19, reduces the likelihood of spreading the virus, and reduces the likelihood of the more serious consequences for those who are still become infected post vaccine.

Vaccine passports. A very slippery slope.

‘Reduces not eliminates.’ Great. Even better is the vaccinated person unaware they’re infecting people while possibly being habitually virtuous when doing so. This is so funny really. People wanting and demanding everyone is vaccinated to go in somewhere but they’re not really safe when they go in there, but they have had the vaccines.

I personally think nearly everyone is going to get covid and it will depend on your age, health and/or own choice of whether you have the vaccine. Or we lock the whole world up with enough food for 2 months.

COYP

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X20XEV Hampshire 05 Sep 21 10.52am
You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia. asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill. we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard. If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too... those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react. So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else.. woken up yet? _______________________________________________________ Not having symptoms does not prevent you passing the virus on. (Fact) Otherwise how would a healthy bloke getting the jab and showing no symptoms give it to someone on. (Your assumption) Where are you getting your information from, a nloke in the pub who also said that we were signing Messi? The spike proteins are part of the virus and are how the virus attaches to cells in the body, in themselves they are nothing. (https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-are-Spike-Proteins.aspx) It is the virus that escapes the body not spike proteins alone. Muddled thinking, although if you are a Palace fan I can understand that...
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X20XEV

Hampshire 05 Sep 21 10.52am

You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia.

asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill.

we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard.

If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too...

those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react.

So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else..

woken up yet?

_______________________________________________________

Not having symptoms does not prevent you passing the virus on. (Fact)

Otherwise how would a healthy bloke getting the jab and showing no symptoms give it to someone on. (Your assumption)

Where are you getting your information from, a nloke in the pub who also said that we were signing Messi?

The spike proteins are part of the virus and are how the virus attaches to cells in the body, in themselves they are nothing. (https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-are-Spike-Proteins.aspx) It is the virus that escapes the body not spike proteins alone.

Muddled thinking, although if you are a Palace fan I can understand that...

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