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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Jul 21 3.19pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There is every reason to suspect it was unreliable, if those witnesses were cherry-picked, as I strongly suspect they were. How many came from the uprising side of the argument, and how many from the controlling ethnic group? This was Empire. You didn't find fault with those who ran it, as that would defeat its credibility and encourage rebellion. You backed those you put in charge. Prejudice? You are demonstrating it in spades by failing to understand the context of the event. Your Joe Bugner moment !!
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georgenorman 13 Jul 21 3.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There is every reason to suspect it was unreliable, if those witnesses were cherry-picked, as I strongly suspect they were. How many came from the uprising side of the argument, and how many from the controlling ethnic group? This was Empire. You didn't find fault with those who ran it, as that would defeat its credibility and encourage rebellion. You backed those you put in charge. Prejudice? You are demonstrating it in spades by failing to understand the context of the event. There is no reason to suppose that witnesses were cherry-picked in some way. Edited by georgenorman (13 Jul 2021 4.15pm)
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Wilesy01 Bristol 13 Jul 21 3.46pm | |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
if Nelson Mandela gets a statue, then we should also furnish Trafalgar Square with a statue of Gerry Adams. just for the sake of Balance. I see this opinion stated on these boards every now and again, that Mandela was nothing more than a violent terrorist. Plenty of reading on the internet about the militant intentions of uMkhonto we Sizwe and it's worth noting their manifesto focused on the destruction of hard targets, rather than the killing of people. I do think these type of actions are set apart from the IRA, who did go after soft targets.
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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jul 21 4.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Wilesy01
I see this opinion stated on these boards every now and again, that Mandela was nothing more than a violent terrorist. Plenty of reading on the internet about the militant intentions of uMkhonto we Sizwe and it's worth noting their manifesto focused on the destruction of hard targets, rather than the killing of people. I do think these type of actions are set apart from the IRA, who did go after soft targets. Ah I see. My terrorist is not as terrible as yours. It's all going so well in South Africa these days.
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Wilesy01 Bristol 13 Jul 21 4.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Ah I see. My terrorist is not as terrible as yours. It's all going so well in South Africa these days. The difference between taking down a telephone mast to assassinating someone is quite the difference, no? And I'm not sure what relevance it has to the current goings on in South Africa but if you wanted to start a thread on that then be my guest as it's an interesting matter. Back to the subject matter at hand - has anyone in the South West gone to the Colston statue exhibit in the M Shed? Have heard it's pretty good.
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Teddy Eagle 13 Jul 21 4.58pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
There is no reason to suppose that witnesses were cherry-picked in some way. Edited by georgenorman (13 Jul 2021 4.15pm) This is like watching the Black Knight in Monty Python & the Holy Grail except even he agreed to a draw.
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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jul 21 5.59pm | |
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Originally posted by Wilesy01
The difference between taking down a telephone mast to assassinating someone is quite the difference, no? And I'm not sure what relevance it has to the current goings on in South Africa but if you wanted to start a thread on that then be my guest as it's an interesting matter. Back to the subject matter at hand - has anyone in the South West gone to the Colston statue exhibit in the M Shed? Have heard it's pretty good. It might have interrupted a very important conversation. Good how exactly? Anyone who supports tearing down statues of former slave owners is a loon as far as I'm concerned. End of.
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cryrst The garden of England 13 Jul 21 7.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Wilesy01
The difference between taking down a telephone mast to assassinating someone is quite the difference, no? And I'm not sure what relevance it has to the current goings on in South Africa but if you wanted to start a thread on that then be my guest as it's an interesting matter. Back to the subject matter at hand - has anyone in the South West gone to the Colston statue exhibit in the M Shed? Have heard it's pretty good. My pal is from natal and it has gone pear shaped big style. Zuma told his followers to rise up. They did and promptly let loose 100s of wild animals from the nature reserve. Then looted and burned down most factories and shops in natal city. Then burned down and looted most shops and factories in neighbouring towns. Then they burned all the trucks delivering to the towns and cities. No food, no milk,no baby milk etc.
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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Jul 21 11.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Wilesy01
I see this opinion stated on these boards every now and again, that Mandela was nothing more than a violent terrorist. Plenty of reading on the internet about the militant intentions of uMkhonto we Sizwe and it's worth noting their manifesto focused on the destruction of hard targets, rather than the killing of people. I do think these type of actions are set apart from the IRA, who did go after soft targets. Murder ? i think you will find the Mandela brigade with a far bigger headcount of women, children and civilians. And a heck of a lot more money in the bank accounts of Mandela's friends than any of the former 'Ra in Ulster. Maybe Mandela's mates can pay for the statue themselves ? Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Jul 2021 11.44pm)
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jul 21 9.57am | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
There is no reason to suppose that witnesses were cherry-picked in some way. Edited by georgenorman (13 Jul 2021 4.15pm) It seems that the cherry-picking isn't restricted to the picking of witnesses, is it? I also read the summary to the McCracken book on this subject, which by the way confirms my original point that these things are healthy as they stimulate debate and evaluation. Yes, 19 of the 62 witnesses were African, but none were actually involved in the uprising. They were all either dead (30 being executed) or in prison. I quote "Some of those were relatively elite Africans– ministers in the Church of Scotland, interpreters for the government, some chiefs, and people who worked on the Magomero estate". That's cherry-picking! It also says, "The whole thing was over in a matter of days. Very few people were killed on the colonial side" and "some individuals – such as Alexander Hetherwick, the leader of the Blantyre Mission – were very dismissive, regarding it as a small-scale affair whose significance was grossly exaggerated by the colonial authorities". There's more, but that's enough. The guy who led the enquiry was also the guy who sentenced the 30 participants to death. The context seems to have been to exploit a relatively minor incident in order to boost the defence forces. I have never suggested there wasn't an incident, that's obvious, but that to interpret it needs much more than a reliance on ancient accounts from one side. There is no evidence at all that Chilembwe was a murderer, which is the central accusation that you and others have made. He led a small uprising in which a few people lost their lives, but 30 were executed as a consequence. Did he himself kill? Did he order others to kill? How did the people die? It's just not known, so no judgement can be made.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jul 21 10.02am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It seems that the cherry-picking isn't restricted to the picking of witnesses, is it? I also read the summary to the McCracken book on this subject, which by the way confirms my original point that these things are healthy as they stimulate debate and evaluation. Yes, 19 of the 62 witnesses were African, but none were actually involved in the uprising. They were all either dead (30 being executed) or in prison. I quote "Some of those were relatively elite Africans– ministers in the Church of Scotland, interpreters for the government, some chiefs, and people who worked on the Magomero estate". That's cherry-picking! It also says, "The whole thing was over in a matter of days. Very few people were killed on the colonial side" and "some individuals – such as Alexander Hetherwick, the leader of the Blantyre Mission – were very dismissive, regarding it as a small-scale affair whose significance was grossly exaggerated by the colonial authorities". There's more, but that's enough. The guy who led the enquiry was also the guy who sentenced the 30 participants to death. The context seems to have been to exploit a relatively minor incident in order to boost the defence forces. I have never suggested there wasn't an incident, that's obvious, but that to interpret it needs much more than a reliance on ancient accounts from one side. There is no evidence at all that Chilembwe was a murderer, which is the central accusation that you and others have made. He led a small uprising in which a few people lost their lives, but 30 were executed as a consequence. Did he himself kill? Did he order others to kill? How did the people die? It's just not known, so no judgement can be made.
Why would the vast majority of people want a statue of someone who is a symbol of anti British feeling?
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Spiderman Horsham 14 Jul 21 10.43am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Why would the vast majority of people want a statue of someone who is a symbol of anti British feeling? TBF WE has said it was not appropriate to have the statue in the UK
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