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World War III
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 johnno42000  09 Jan 20 8.48am |
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Call me a conspiracy nutter but how's this for a scenario: Iran Ayatollah worried about being iverthrown by powerful general
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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Stirlingsays  09 Jan 20 9.33am |
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Originally posted by johnno42000
Call me a conspiracy nutter but how's this for a scenario: Iran Ayatollah worried about being iverthrown by powerful general I like it. Highly unlikely. But I like it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 09 Jan 20 9.45am |
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Not as crazy as it sounds. I heard a pundit explain that Trump doesn't want regime change because the Iranian elected government is fairly moderate by middle east standards and he wants to strengthen that. It is the Revolutionary guard and the Ayatollahs that hold the power these are the people that Trump wants to attack so I could see a situation where one part of the regime was actively working against another part. I know a number of people who have visited Iran (I was hoping to go myself this year) and they felt that most Iranians are fairly modern / western in their outlook. That might not look it judging by the anti American crowds but then if you think about the demonstrations we have in London and how they don't reflect the silent majority... Edited by Badger11 (09 Jan 2020 9.46am)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 09 Jan 20 9.53am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Did you know about him20 years ago as well. Then why did we overthrow Mossadegh in Iran and support the Shah in the 50s? Why did we rip up the Iran deal and throw Khomeini under a bus when he is a reformer and the opposition are religious radicals? Why do we throw our weight in the region behind the Saudis and Israel, two of the only theocracies in the world? People need to wake up and learn more than the most basic of facts about the Middle East, or our leaders will continue to take us for a ride whenever intervention suits them.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 20 9.59am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Not as crazy as it sounds. I heard a pundit explain that Trump doesn't want regime change because the Iranian elected government is fairly moderate by middle east standards and he wants to strengthen that. It is the Revolutionary guard and the Ayatollahs that hold the power these are the people that Trump wants to attack so I could see a situation where one part of the regime was actively working against another part. I know a number of people who have visited Iran (I was hoping to go myself this year) and they felt that most Iranians are fairly modern / western in their outlook. That might not look it judging by the anti American crowds but then if you think about the demonstrations we have in London and how they don't reflect the silent majority... Edited by Badger11 (09 Jan 2020 9.46am) The main hole in the theory is that it places the Ayatollah completely at the mercy of the Americans...to be exposed at anytime. Why would he need them? If he were to want the General removed he'd be far better advised to get his own people....who rely on him and he can depose of....to do the deed. But I like it nevertheless....another spicy spin. Unfortunately most things.....not all....but most, come down to occam's razor. I agree with you about the percentage of westernization in Iran....but please follow the travel advice and don't go to Iran....just my two pennies to a good poster.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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cryrst  The garden of England 09 Jan 20 11.51am |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Then why did we overthrow Mossadegh in Iran and support the Shah in the 50s? Why did we rip up the Iran deal and throw Khomeini under a bus when he is a reformer and the opposition are religious radicals? Why do we throw our weight in the region behind the Saudis and Israel, two of the only theocracies in the world? People need to wake up and learn more than the most basic of facts about the Middle East, or our leaders will continue to take us for a ride whenever intervention suits them. The nuclear deal wasnt and isnt working.
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 20 12.02pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Then why did we overthrow Mossadegh in Iran and support the Shah in the 50s? Why did we rip up the Iran deal and throw Khomeini under a bus when he is a reformer and the opposition are religious radicals? Why do we throw our weight in the region behind the Saudis and Israel, two of the only theocracies in the world? People need to wake up and learn more than the most basic of facts about the Middle East, or our leaders will continue to take us for a ride whenever intervention suits them.
All 'we' are required to do is operate in our own best interests and follow our own standards....which will be particular in time to that administration. Everything you obsess over with regards to the west in the middle east has and is also done by the communists in the past and/or non west.....Look at Russia and China there now. All operating free of criticism yet all operating in their own self interest. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jan 2020 12.03pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 09 Jan 20 12.10pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
The nuclear deal wasnt and isnt working. The Trump administration ripped up Obama's deal as soon as they got in to office. That of course was added to the crippling sanctions they had imposed on them. Like I say, learn.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 20 12.15pm |
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This isn't said to jab at anyone on this particular thread but to make a point about the left and indeed...plenty on the dissident and alt right over Iran and these recent events. Like Blaire White just tweeted....it's like chickens defending KFC. The leadership of Iran is not in anyway friendly to the west...A lot of the time you have to think that it's because they stand aggressively against Israel.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 09 Jan 20 12.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
All 'we' are required to do is operate in our own best interests and follow our own standards....which will be particular in time to that administration. Everything you obsess over with regards to the west in the middle east has and is also done by the communists in the past and/or non west.....Look at Russia and China there now. All operating free of criticism yet all operating in their own self interest. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jan 2020 12.03pm)
We spend billions every time we go to war. Money that is then said to be unavailable and ludicrous when we ask for money for education or housing or support for the disabled. That's why I scrutinise our government more than China or Russia. Edited by serial thriller (09 Jan 2020 12.16pm)
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 20 12.37pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
But aren't you tired of being lied to Stirling? Of the tax you pay going towards wars with seemingly no impact on US other than increasing the chance of us being blown up by terrorists? We spend billions every time we go to war. Money that is then said to be unavailable and ludicrous when we ask for money for education or housing or support for the disabled. That's why I scrutinise our government more than China or Russia. Edited by serial thriller (09 Jan 2020 12.16pm) The reason we have increased chances of being blown up is because internationalists opened us up to mass immigration......There are no terror attacks like this in Poland or Hungary or Japan. As for lies....All politicians lie. All you can do is pick the liar who operates in your best interest. As for war and money for the nice stuff. Well, as Orwell said, 'people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.' The only reason you have your 'promised land' (apart from the success that is the northern European) is because the people you appear to heavily dislike (The US (also Europeans))....built up West Germany after WW2 instead of tearing it down and raping its women like the Soviets did for East Germany. Germany was able to become the success it is now directly because the US and the allies gave it that opportunity. The US, with serious intent, placing millions of troops in Europe to defend against the communists. That's the reason you get to moan about education and health not being of the highest standards that throughout history only the rich can afford. Europe and the Anglosphere has some of the highest life expectancy and educational standards in the world....that didn't come about from pacifists....pacifists get crucified.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 09 Jan 20 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The main hole in the theory is that it places the Ayatollah completely at the mercy of the Americans...to be exposed at anytime. Why would he need them? If he were to want the General removed he'd be far better advised to get his own people....who rely on him and he can depose of....to do the deed. But I like it nevertheless....another spicy spin. Unfortunately most things.....not all....but most, come down to occam's razor. I agree with you about the percentage of westernization in Iran....but please follow the travel advice and don't go to Iran....just my two pennies to a good poster.
No absolutely not I made that decision when they arrested the Australian backpackers. It's one thing for a British dual national who may or may not be interfering in politics but when they start arresting simple tourists that's it for now. It's a real pity because Iran is a beautiful country with fabulous cultural sites and apparently friendly locals. All I can do is add to a long list of other countries I won't be visiting any time soon. It's sad but that region is going backwards my lady friend has visited all over the middle east but now so many of those places are no go for now.
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