Yeah, that's a very interesting point. As you said before, much of it is about money - but if you look at the movements for autonomy or independence, it's generally the richer areas trying to pull away. That's not to say it's only about money, but Catalonia, Lombardy, Flanders, are often richer parts.

I think it's also one of these general movements, like a newton's cradle - moving between bigger and smaller entities.

You are absolutely right, the issue is where does self determination start and end? My opinion is that if your town wanted to become independent, then yes it should. There is no reason not to if that's what the people genuinely want and they think their government no longer suits them, and they identify themselves as a culture or group, then that wouldn't be a problem. It would be a hard sell to talk your town into it, but there is no reason they couldn't. It would be a stupid country and would be very reliant on the UK but that would be their problem, not ours...

And the 49.3% is the problem, the poll could be either way, but you wont know for sure unless you have a referendum, polls have up to a 5% margin of error so it could be 55%/45% or even 60% and it could be either way! They need a referendum just for that at least, even if its non binding.

Is it down to money? Yeah almost everything is, Barcelona has vast funds diverted on stupid projects around Madrid and a phasing project started in Spain a while ago to divert trading activity from Catalonia to Southern Spain. But 25 years ago polls were only 5% so it must be on a way bigger level than we think it is.

Is his face punchable? I thought he just had a proper vanilla face, like you could only describe it to the police as "a face" with no features whatsoever...

Worth knowing by the way because I hear this in certain, similar but in no way the same situations. A country is not allowed to vote for the separation of a part of its country. The UN consider it an atrocity. So in the case of Catalonia, Spain voting for Catalonia to be independent is a massive no-no...

If that rule wasn't in place, then governments could dispose of parts of the country that don't make them any money and could result in abject poverty for the dispelled area. I know that hardly applies when its parts of western Europe but it does make sense. Can you imagine if we forced Northumberland out of England against its will because the rest of us didn't want to fund it anymore?

Like I said thought I would bring it up because its interesting, and because its the reason Spain can't just vote for Catalonia to be independent, even if that's what they want...

De la inversión pública, el Gobierno asumió la parte mayoritaria: un 37,37%. El consistorio, un 16,34% y la Generalitat, un 18,34%. Telefónica, entonces controlada por el sector público, un 15,43% y el COOB, un 5,33%.

Spanish government 37.37% Catalan government 18.34, Telefónica which was controled by the Spanish governent (BT) another 15.43%

Belgium will probably pass him on to the UK where he will take up residence in the Ecuador embassy to keep Julian Assange company

I'd almost forgotten about that prick until now. France might as well send Polanski over too. They can have a fugitive sleepover.

Edited by Stuk (02 Nov 2017 2.28pm)