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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jun 17 9.19am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Happy to accept 7 years of above inflation pay rises for themselves though! Their messaging was all over the place as well saying it was time to end the pay cap and then following partisan lines just to prop up May's enfeebled government rather than do what's right for the economy and the country. Just Tory MPs ? Think I have said enough about all this Politics so I shall get off my 'Soapbox' and concentrate on the football debates ! Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 9.22am)
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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 9.22am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Happy to accept 7 years of above inflation pay rises for themselves though! Their messaging was all over the place as well saying it was time to end the pay cap and then following partisan lines just to prop up May's enfeebled government rather than do what's right for the economy and the country. In fairness, politicians don't earn that much in relative terms.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.23am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
Total and utter piffle when you consider that 'Tragedy' is defined as" an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress" If you wish to deal in fastidiousness in phraseology perhaps you might consider the words of that 'Charming' McDonnell who claimed that the victims of Grenfell were "MURDERED by political decisions". His rhetoric about Tory murders is in keeping with the rest of his career which has been caharcterised by extremism. Synonym: Misfortune. This was no mere tragedy. It was totally avoidable. The word tragedy carries connotations of bad lack or an act of God. His language was certainly impassioned and OTT, however he's certainly right that the negligence of politicians at local and national level caused those deaths. Manslaughter is a more apt word, but his words certainly tap into the feeling of those most impacted by this crime.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.23am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
In fairness, politicians don't earn that much in relative terms. They do when you add in their consultancy jobs and dinner party speaking gigs etc etc.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.25am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
Just Tory MPs ? Think I have said enough about all this Politics so I shall get off my 'Soapbox' and concentrate on the football debates ! Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 9.22am) Remind me who has been in government since 2010 and hence able to pass legislation on these matters... Given most MPs total income is well above £80k most would be caught.
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jun 17 9.33am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Remind me who has been in government since 2010 and hence able to pass legislation on these matters... Given most MPs total income is well above £80k most would be caught. You go on about 2010. In Camden where over 3,000 residents had to be evacuated from several tower blocks, the flammable cladding was fixed in 2006 by a Labour council working under the Blair government.And of course McDonnell in the mid-80s worked as the head of policy for 'Camden Council'. Is he certain that he bears no culpability for any failings in social housing in London in recent decades ? As for MPs, you know darned well that their base pay is just under the limit of the tax hike proposed by Labour.Co-incidence or what ?
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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 9.34am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
They do when you add in their consultancy jobs and dinner party speaking gigs etc etc. I'd rather see them earn more and be restricted in the other work they can do.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 29 Jun 17 9.38am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
You go on about 2010. In Camden where over 3,000 residents had to be evacuated from several tower blocks, the flammable cladding was fixed in 2006 by a Labour council working under the Blair government.And of course McDonnell in the mid-80s worked as the head of policy for 'Camden Council'. Is he certain that he bears no culpability for any failings in social housing in London in recent decades ? As for MPs, you know darned well that their base pay is just under the limit of the tax hike proposed by Labour.Co-incidence or what ? Also of course, in 2005, regulatory reform (fire safety) order introduced under Blair’s Labour government shifted the responsibility for fire inspection from the fire brigade to the local council. It in effect ended the practice of routine fire inspections.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jun 17 9.40am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Synonym: Misfortune. This was no mere tragedy. It was totally avoidable. The word tragedy carries connotations of bad lack or an act of God. His language was certainly impassioned and OTT, however he's certainly right that the negligence of politicians at local and national level caused those deaths. Manslaughter is a more apt word, but his words certainly tap into the feeling of those most impacted by this crime. You can put your own interpretation of "Tragedy" for partisan gain, I have given the definition and as such the word was used correctly in this context, unlike "Murdered" as used by McDonnell.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.42am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
You go on about 2010. In Camden where over 3,000 residents had to be evacuated from several tower blocks, the flammable cladding was fixed in 2006 by a Labour council working under the Blair government.And of course McDonnell in the mid-80s worked as the head of policy for 'Camden Council'. Is he certain that he bears no culpability for any failings in social housing in London in recent decades ? As for MPs, you know darned well that their base pay is just under the limit of the tax hike proposed by Labour.Co-incidence or what ? Yes the £80k is in reference to the top 5% of earners not an arbitrary figure. Also nearly every MP has a second source of income in excess of £4k pa. Given the current Labour front bench hate the Blair government more than the Tory front bench that's hardly an attack on them. Also given the example you are referring to is of cladding fitted in 2006 I doubt McDonnell had much say in the specification of the fitting. The current council leader in Camden has acted with a lot more grace and humility than that sorry excuse in Kensington.
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jun 17 9.46am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Yes the £80k is in reference to the top 5% of earners not an arbitrary figure. Also nearly every MP has a second source of income in excess of £4k pa. Given the current Labour front bench hate the Blair government more than the Tory front bench that's hardly an attack on them. Also given the example you are referring to is of cladding fitted in 2006 I doubt McDonnell had much say in the specification of the fitting. The current council leader in Camden has acted with a lot more grace and humility than that sorry excuse in Kensington. 1. The top 5% who were supposedly going to fund (Along with hikes in Corporation tax) the lavish Labour spending spree in their 'La-La land' of fantasy economics. 2. Cladding fitted in 2006 - Remind me who was in Government.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Jun 17 9.54am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
It is only political because Labour are making it so for partisan gain. You go on,like Labour about "Cuts" but the facts contadict so many of Labour's risible claims.The installation of flammable cladding had nothing to do with Tory "Cuts". On the contrary it was part of a refurbishment programme costing £8.65 million or £360,000 for each floor, hardly an indicator of austerity. Also the cynical hogwash about the "Cuts" to the Fire Service.The lady head of the 'London Fire Brigade' categorically stated that there were no issues about the number of firefighters fighting the blaze. Also if Labour wish to holler about "Murderers" they might consider the fact that the majority of tower blocks that have so far failed tests are in Labour municipalities including Manchestrer and Sunderland.
Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 9.07am) No its political, because people burning to death in a building, which has cladding that fails fire safety tests is entirely political. There was no shortage of fire fighters fighting the blaze, but there was no feasible method by which to rescue people trapped on the higher floors, or for fighting fires above the third floor. I don't think it really matters whether its a Labour council or Conservative council, those people died unnecessarily, and despite being in existence for decades, there was no reasonable methodology for dealing with fires at that altitude or for the rescue of people. For me, both Labour and the Conservatives, and every council since that tower was built bear some responsibility for these events. But citizens dying is entirely political. Trying to hide away behind inquiries and investigations, suggests to me, that its going to be the 'Hillsborough' long haul to justice. Once upon a time, people would have resigned over this kind of scandal, even if they weren't directly at fault, but represented the body accountable. When people in the UK die, because of negligence, and in this case its increasingly looking like the cladding wasn't up to fire standards, then we should be angry and political about it.
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