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Is this Racist?

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becky Flag over the moon 10 Jan 17 2.38pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Probably 95% of the entire population of the UK would have no idea why some Morris Dancers black their faces. Nothing to do with immigration, just a general lack of cultural knowledge.


So here's a little information for you then:

The Morris who blacken their faces are called Border or Silurian Morris - not to be confused with Cotswold Morris, who are the one's who wave hankies around ,or any of the several other variations like Clog Morris etc.

Border Morris is a much 'darker' (in the spiritual sense) form of Morris and generally originated (and is still danced in earnest) on the borders of Wales and England and is a winter dance form in origin.

Generally it is only the main part of the face that is blackened for the dance, not the neck or hands (although the BBC seem to have found a photo of one dancer who has blackened his neck- trust the BBC!), which, quite correctly implies that it is not a 'minstrel' type attempt to look black.

Way back in the early middle ages, during the winter months, when times were hardest for the farm labourers and peasants, survival often depended on begging - but this was against the law and would result in a worker and his family being turned out of their home and off the land. In order to get round this (and survive) they blackened their faces to disguise their identities (by candlelight or lamplight in winter this would have been easily done)and danced for whatever they could earn around the taverns and posting houses.

So, basically nothing more sinister or racist than say a soldier blacking up his face as part of his operational camouflage - or will that be next on the racially unacceptable list?

 


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 10 Jan 17 2.41pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

When my kids grow up and further down the line to middle age at some point they will be saying "dad, it was so much better in the days that I don't remember, nor have experience of, when loads of people from other places didn't live in the UK"

Thankyou for your concern Hrolf.

 


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Midlands Eagle Flag 10 Jan 17 2.41pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Now Morris dancing of any kind is totally silly to me but it is British culture. The politicians will be queuing up to be all PC about it I'm sure

Michael Fabricant was on The Daily Politics today sticking up for the right of morris dancers to blacken their faces as they have done for centuries

 

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 10 Jan 17 2.45pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by becky

So here's a little information for you then:

The Morris who blacken their faces are called Border or Silurian Morris - not to be confused with Cotswold Morris, who are the one's who wave hankies around ,or any of the several other variations like Clog Morris etc.

Border Morris is a much 'darker' (in the spiritual sense) form of Morris and generally originated (and is still danced in earnest) on the borders of Wales and England and is a winter dance form in origin.

Generally it is only the main part of the face that is blackened for the dance, not the neck or hands (although the BBC seem to have found a photo of one dancer who has blackened his neck- trust the BBC!), which, quite correctly implies that it is not a 'minstrel' type attempt to look black.

Way back in the early middle ages, during the winter months, when times were hardest for the farm labourers and peasants, survival often depended on begging - but this was against the law and would result in a worker and his family being turned out of their home and off the land. In order to get round this (and survive) they blackened their faces to disguise their identities (by candlelight or lamplight in winter this would have been easily done)and danced for whatever they could earn around the taverns and posting houses.

So, basically nothing more sinister or racist than say a soldier blacking up his face as part of his operational camouflage - or will that be next on the racially unacceptable list?

I am not one of the 95% becks but thanks for the added info. Can't move down in these parts without bumping into a Morris dancer so have got to know what it's all about whether I like it or not.

What's amusing is our Hungarian couple friends have joined one of the local groups and they love it and do festivals now telling Brit visitors what it is all about.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 10 Jan 17 2.47pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Your opinions about immigration being the cause of all the Uk's ills are beyond facile.

And you can point us to the post where I actually said that I suppose.

More hyperbole.

So Nick, you fully support those chaps who confronted those old Morris dancers?
It;s all quite surprising in a country you claim is over run by Neo Nazis. You'd have thought they would have been too scared to do that in the full public gaze. But you and they know nothing will happen to them as a result. Politicians will be queuing up to apologise on behalf of the entire country.

I expect you fully support the burka too eh Nick? I mean that issue pales into insignificance next to those evil Morris dancers.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 10 Jan 17 2.49pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Michael Fabricant was on The Daily Politics today sticking up for the right of morris dancers to blacken their faces as they have done for centuries

I look forward to the whole of Parliament coming out in support.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 10 Jan 17 2.52pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

When my kids grow up and further down the line to middle age at some point they will be saying "dad, it was so much better in the days that I don't remember, nor have experience of, when loads of people from other places didn't live in the UK"

Thankyou for your concern Hrolf.

You're welcome.

I hope they don't inherit your myopia.

 

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 10 Jan 17 3.45pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

What is racism other than taking the piss ? It baffles me that to this day, you can still tell a joke about when paddy and Murphy walked into a bar ..... But you exchange those names in the joke to Delroy and Mohammed and all of a sudden it's racist and the Police are knocking on your door.

How can that be so ? it's a joke, by and large jokes always poke fun in the punchline at the butt of the joke, normally a stereo type of a certain nationality/sex etc etc

Jokes are derogatory by definition, someone or something is going to be the butt of the joke, does that make any joke ever told about a stereo type racist ? I don't hear many Irish people complaining, in fact if you watch Mrs Browns boys, they categorically take the piss out of themselves.

My point is that it is the reaction of the social group the joke is aimed at that seems to determine whether it's racist or not.

So what we have is a situation whereby the offensiveness of a joke is measured at it's core, by the outrage from that particular social demograph the joke pokes fun at.

That for me says more about the people calling racist than it does about the joke teller.

Edited by dannyh (10 Jan 2017 3.47pm)

 


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 10 Jan 17 4.16pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

This is proper racism...

That US couple who left their waitress a note saying "good service but we don't tip black people"


 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 10 Jan 17 4.17pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This story goes to the heart of the issue.

This is about the effects if immigration on our culture.

Here we have reverse racism if you please. We all know the cliche of skin head yobs abusing Asians and Black people, there has been plenty of that sort of behavior in the past. Now we have Black/Asian "gentlemen" having a go at aging Morris Dancers for wearing traditional black make up. A tradition that has nothing to do with black people apparently. Now this might genuinely offend some people, I don't know, but having a go at the old fellas is just bullying for me and I doubt those young men really give a dam. It's just a way for them to assert themselves just like the aforementioned skin head. Now the question of black face has been well covered and we all accept that impersonating black people in a condescending, insulting manner is in poor taste and just plain rude. However this story goes beyond that for me and must be seen in a broader context.
I see this story as a metaphor for what is to come in Britain. Now Morris dancing of any kind is totally silly to me but it is British culture. The politicians will be queuing up to be all PC about it I'm sure but I bet the same politicians won't say a word when women walk down the street covered from head to foot because their oppressive patriarchal religion demands it. Now that really offends me. Should I confront their husbands about it? Confronting people who offend you seems to be OK today.

Sadly this is just the tip of the iceberg and we can expect to see loads more of our culture eroded when it "offends" someone as migration reaches insane levels in the future.

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Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Jan 2017 1.25pm)

Some one should explain to them that its not about race. Ignorance works both ways.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 10 Jan 17 4.52pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Some one should explain to them that its not about race. Ignorance works both ways.

Someone did. They weren't listening.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 10 Jan 17 4.53pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

This is proper racism...

That US couple who left their waitress a note saying "good service but we don't tip black people"


And stupidness if they are thinking of eating there again.

 

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