It's worth looking beyond the starting elevens...we had 2 keepers on our bench..they had Benrama ( £25m ), Fornals ( £20m ), Cornet ( £18m )

Old, Ungifted and White

I think it was a good point but I also think both teams were poor offensively. Neither seemed capable of stringing more than a few passes together and both defences seemed fairly comfortable aside from the two goals. It was almost as if Roy and Dave had decided beforehand a point would suit them both. It stops the rot for us, but I really hope we play better on Wednesday or we'll lose.

It's not unreasonable to compare the starting line-ups, but then how does that excuse the loss at Luton? Furthermore, if you start doing that you basically excuse any dropping of points outside of games against about five teams. I didn't hear you making those excuses when Vieira was drawing with Newcastle, Liverpool and Manchester United just before he was sacked. It's about performances as well as results, which is why PV went. Yesterday we were fairly toothless yet again and yet again Roy does not seem to have any other ideas other than to throw JPM on at the end.

After Bournemouth the next four games are going to be really tough if things don't change as we seriously lack pace and so can't counter (as shown yesterday and our stat of 0 goals from counter-attacks this season) and rightly or wrongly Roy is not playing the two players who do have pace (Ahamada and Franca). We also can't string enough passes together to build through the lines and Eduoard struggles to hold the ball up when it's hit long. Our only hope right now is that Eze is right and he can start training this week.

And what evidence do you have to justify that statement when neither have yet been given a starting place? And not likely to when we have a manager not willing to take any chances.

West Ham fans that I know are fed up with Moyes for similar reasons some of us get fed up with Roy. He doesn't take many risks and doesn't use his subs.

I'm not saying Ahamada or Franca are the answer, but we don't know as Roy won't play them. When Ahamada has come on he has injected pace and energy and does have some skill (when I watched him in preseason against Lyon I was impressed with his dribbling). He was also performing well in the Bundesliga so he's not completely inexperienced. Franca is different as he has less experience but he has played only 31 minutes. Half of that was against Newcastle when he looked really good, half was against Spurs when he didn't. 15 minutes is almost impossible to get into the game and make an impact. When you are offering next to nothing going forward surely you would at least give him a chance especially when Roy seemingly has no other ideas. Sometimes I feel like he's not playing the younger players out of stubbornness more than anything.

I disagree, the reason we lost to Luton were the injuries to Eze and Doucoure, and as you know we are a second half team tacticaly, the team that started at the Spammers, only Johnstone, Guehi, Andersen and Olise would get into a decent top 10 side, i think Roy is doing a great job with what he has, as seen when everybody was available at the end of last season, but, i think he should not be manager next season.

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

One of the points that I was making was that Moyes at least had more proven options on the bench than Hodgson did. My son in law is a West Ham season ticket holder, and yes, they do get frustrated with Moyes and his use or not of subs.

When it comes to Hodgson's '' stubbornness '' I tend to look at it this way. His No.1 priority and main objective is to keep Palace in the Premier League. That's why he is in the job again. So he's not going to deviate from the methods that he has previously employed and that includes putting his faith in experience over youth.

A more risk taking manager may well have brought Ahamada and / or Franca into the game yesterday, but complaining that they weren't strikes me as similar to moving to Manchester then complaining about the rain

If there is a lack of ambition about our manager and our style of play, I think it's only a reflection of the sum of the clubs ambition.

Old, Ungifted and White