Regale us with any stories or observations from people who fell, simultaneously , into both categories.

Unequivocally in both camps....so Bill Hicks does not qualify ( not mad enough). Sinead O'Connor does not qualify...a good voice but its doubtful that she was ever a true genius.

- James Joyce, writer of Ulysses. It ran in the family.

- Syd Barrett, genius Pink Floyd guitarist.

- Mel Gibson, the Apocalypto movie was genius, the rest is well known in Hollywood.

- Isaac Newton....strongly represented in both camps.

- Pablo Escobar...had the genius to rise from humble beginnings and become the wealthiest criminal in World history. And his behaviour thereafter.....surely off his rocker ? Mad and Bad.

- Napoleon Bonaparte .....certainly a military genius. And the madness ? that may be his love-life or his barmy attempts to cut off the UK from all of mainland Europe. We must not include any drug-induced madness when the Brits poisoned him on St Helena.

- Michael Jackson ? more of a musical genius than Elvis Presley. As the former wrote his own songs.

- Vincent Van Gogh.....certainly both. And in his case, if he lived today & was treated with lithium then we would not have got all the amazing art. No psychosis = no Starry night.

- Spike Milligan.....was treated with Lithium, which he swore by.

- George Best & Paul Gascoigne......similar kindred spirits.

- Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins. World snooker champion. Caught p1.ssing in the large plant-pots outside the gig. Alex Once nutted a snooker referee. Lacking the genius of Alex, His son got jailed for robbery of a newsagents.

- Ted Kazynsky....The Unabomber. Surely the worst of the madness was the manner in which he selected his victims. The manager of a computer shop ? as a James Bond villain intent on destroying the World ?

What others ?

Edited by PalazioVecchio (11 Sep 2023 8.02pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

oliver reed.

systematically ruined his own career.
vomited on the shoes of director, scared the s***e out of co-actors
had his knob tattoed.
made a few great films (the devils.. of loudon)
wouldve made a kick ass james bond.
was able to quaff a small pub dry.
liked a fight or 3.

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

Bobby Fischer. Brilliant and completely bonkers.

Visiting a friend of mine in Malta, he took me to a small pub near the original city walls where they still do the cannon firing at a certain time every day - this small hole in the wall type pub was apparently where Oliver Reed drank regularly & eventually had his last tipple, keeling over at the table near the door (or so the story goes)

Did he? I thought Quincy Jones played a huge role in his career. I once saw a documentary about song writers I had never heard of these people but they were responsible for some massive hits.

Some of them refused to work with some of the biggest artists at the time e.g. Jackson and Madonna as these stars demanded a share of the song writing credit.

Of course it can be difficult to say when someone should get credit on a song there is no doubt that Jackson was an incredible performer and he put a unique spin on the songs whether that always justified the writing credit I don't know. I guess if you are a struggling writer and MJ wants to record your song you might share credit?

One more point

Freddie Starr……so funny back in the day, yet clearly a troubled individual and one rung short of a ladder