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Everton fans at Spurs

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The groover Flag Danbury 07 Mar 22 9.05pm Send a Private Message to The groover Add The groover as a friend

If they leave now they can catch the 21.40 back to liverpool............

Everton really do look shocking!

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 07 Mar 22 9.16pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Now 5-0 and over 30 mins left.

A hammering but I think they will be ok.

 

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monkey Flag Sittingbourne,but made in Bromley 07 Mar 22 9.17pm Send a Private Message to monkey Add monkey as a friend

Originally posted by The groover

If they leave now they can catch the 21.40 back to liverpool............

Everton really do look shocking!

Their team has left already

 

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Slimey Toad Flag Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 07 Mar 22 9.50pm Send a Private Message to Slimey Toad Add Slimey Toad as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Now 5-0 and over 30 mins left.

A hammering but I think they will be ok.

You're likely correct. Great if they did go down though.

 

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Goal Machine Flag The Cronx 07 Mar 22 10.14pm Send a Private Message to Goal Machine Add Goal Machine as a friend

They’re in a right mess. Lampard was a poor appointment and their squad is no better than Newcastle, Leeds and Burnley. They have a terrible run of fixtures in April which will likely see them in the bottom 3 come May.

For me it’s between Everton & Leeds for the final relegation spot. Burnley have grit, Dyche and have been there before.

 

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PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 08 Mar 22 4.17pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Slimey Toad

You're likely correct. Great if they did go down though.

the list of teams never relegated from the Prem.......the two smaller clubs in the list were Aston Villa and Everton.

i would love them to eat some humble pie. Something everybody else has already had.

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 08 Mar 22 4.37pm Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the list of teams never relegated from the Prem.......the two smaller clubs in the list were Aston Villa and Everton.

i would love them to eat some humble pie. Something everybody else has already had.

Villa were relegated in 2015/16 season.

 


This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 08 Mar 22 5.05pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by eagleman13

Villa were relegated in 2015/16 season.

exactly. And what i meant to say was Everton are the only non-giant to not be relegated. And so they are well overdue the privilege.

Look at some huge clubs in the Championship and even League One....many clubs bigger than Everton.

The team with the greatest longevity in the Top Flight is Arsenal 1913....followed by Everton 1951. Considering their mediocrity in terms of Silverware, Everton are not the second best club in the Land. But many of their Fans seem to be living in the 1960s

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (08 Mar 2022 5.08pm)

Edited by PalazioVecchio (08 Mar 2022 5.21pm)

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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sydtheeagle Flag England 09 Mar 22 1.12pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

It's instructive to look at the teams who have really come into serious, serious money in recent years:

Chelsea
Man City
Everton
Newcastle

Yes, I know all the top clubs have wealthy owners but the above four seem to be the ones who have owners prepared to splash the cash willy-nilly, as opposed to Liverpool or Man Utd. who do have wealthy owners, but owners who also exercise some restraint with spending the cash. Their wealth is real, but not a bottomless pit.

Of those four, Chelsea and Man City have had clear strategies and structures from day 1. They've consistently hired only the very top managers (Avram Grant is the only exception I can really think of) and they've supported them with world-class players who've fit a clear tactical approach. They buy players not just because they're names, but because they fit a strategic blueprint. Thus, the individuals brought in advance the team itself.

Newcastle seems to be getting it right via another formula. So far, the new owners have spent wisely, bringing in players and a manager who are clear fits for the task immediately to hand (staying up and putting building blocks in place). This bodes well for their long term-future. They haven't just gone for glamour and big names; they've said "what's the best fit for where we are right now?" The likes of Eddie Howe, Dan Burn and Chris Wood (even if they overpaid) are solid answers to that question. Donny Van Der Beek and Dele Alli may be "better" players than Dan Burn and Chris Wood but not for a team in chaos facing a relegation battle.

Everton are the outlier here. Whereas the other three clubs appear to be both obscenely rich AND well run (in different ways), Everton are obscenely rich and very badly run. Their approach to managers has been all over the place and, with the exception of Ancelotti not focused on proven quality at all (Marco Silva, Frank Lampard) and their spending has been completely random, not mirroring where they are in the table or what they actually need to improve long-term. They haven't build a squad; they've just spent money to stick short-term plasters on their existing wounds. James Rodriguez may be a great player technically, but he's hardly where you'd spend millions for a lower-mid-table side looking to improve. They've simply taken a "flavour-of-the-month" approach to the transfer market and manager hirings (Benitez excepted); looking to make headlines that excite the fans for five minutes rather than putting an infrastructure in place for long-term success. The result has been a downward spiral, in spite of the money spent, for five years now and it's getting worse, not better.

The lesson, I think, is that if you have endless money you are far more likely to succeed BUT cash alone doesn't protect you from your own incompetence. Cash enables you to reach a higher sky, but it also enables you, as Everton have proved, to dig yourself a far, far deeper hole. If Everton stays up, they face a massive and probably lengthy rebuild to turn things around. If they go down, they're in massive trouble whether the owner is rich or not. In either case, my guess is that the short-term future for Everton doesn't look very rosy at all. The sort of process they need to go through to turn things around, and the sort of manager and players capable of delivering it, doesn't fit in with their self-image at all and their failure to resolve that difference is what's brought them to where they are now in the first place. As long as they try to address fundamental structural needs with luxury players and managers, things will continue to get worse, not better.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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CrazyBadger Flag Ware 09 Mar 22 2.58pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

It's instructive to look at the teams who have really come into serious, serious money in recent years:

Chelsea
Man City
Everton
Newcastle

Yes, I know all the top clubs have wealthy owners but the above four seem to be the ones who have owners prepared to splash the cash willy-nilly, as opposed to Liverpool or Man Utd. who do have wealthy owners, but owners who also exercise some restraint with spending the cash. Their wealth is real, but not a bottomless pit.

Of those four, Chelsea and Man City have had clear strategies and structures from day 1. They've consistently hired only the very top managers (Avram Grant is the only exception I can really think of) and they've supported them with world-class players who've fit a clear tactical approach. They buy players not just because they're names, but because they fit a strategic blueprint. Thus, the individuals brought in advance the team itself.

Newcastle seems to be getting it right via another formula. So far, the new owners have spent wisely, bringing in players and a manager who are clear fits for the task immediately to hand (staying up and putting building blocks in place). This bodes well for their long term-future. They haven't just gone for glamour and big names; they've said "what's the best fit for where we are right now?" The likes of Eddie Howe, Dan Burn and Chris Wood (even if they overpaid) are solid answers to that question. Donny Van Der Beek and Dele Alli may be "better" players than Dan Burn and Chris Wood but not for a team in chaos facing a relegation battle.

Everton are the outlier here. Whereas the other three clubs appear to be both obscenely rich AND well run (in different ways), Everton are obscenely rich and very badly run. Their approach to managers has been all over the place and, with the exception of Ancelotti not focused on proven quality at all (Marco Silva, Frank Lampard) and their spending has been completely random, not mirroring where they are in the table or what they actually need to improve long-term. They haven't build a squad; they've just spent money to stick short-term plasters on their existing wounds. James Rodriguez may be a great player technically, but he's hardly where you'd spend millions for a lower-mid-table side looking to improve. They've simply taken a "flavour-of-the-month" approach to the transfer market and manager hirings (Benitez excepted); looking to make headlines that excite the fans for five minutes rather than putting an infrastructure in place for long-term success. The result has been a downward spiral, in spite of the money spent, for five years now and it's getting worse, not better.

The lesson, I think, is that if you have endless money you are far more likely to succeed BUT cash alone doesn't protect you from your own incompetence. Cash enables you to reach a higher sky, but it also enables you, as Everton have proved, to dig yourself a far, far deeper hole. If Everton stays up, they face a massive and probably lengthy rebuild to turn things around. If they go down, they're in massive trouble whether the owner is rich or not. In either case, my guess is that the short-term future for Everton doesn't look very rosy at all. The sort of process they need to go through to turn things around, and the sort of manager and players capable of delivering it, doesn't fit in with their self-image at all and their failure to resolve that difference is what's brought them to where they are now in the first place. As long as they try to address fundamental structural needs with luxury players and managers, things will continue to get worse, not better.

i agree with all of this, except that I see that their managerial appointments haven't been that 'bad', since Moyes - they appeared entirely reasonable at the time.
Martinez - seen as a ball playing manager, mixed bag at previous jobs. good follow-on from Moyes.
Koeman - good appointment all in. did ok.
Allardyce - I thought he'd do alright here, but was SOO unpopular with the fans. never going to succeed in that environment.
Silva - this Was a flavour of the month. never impressed me previously, but lots of pundits liked him.
Ancelotti - right Coup to get him. showed ambition. and returned with the highest win percentage since Howard kendall
Benitez - marmite appointment, I thought it seemed a reasonably 'safe' appointment at the time, inspite of his 'pool connections. Fans had their way Again. Fans Fury a la allardyce *1000
Lampard - up coming manager. inherited a right sh*t show.

I find it hard to believe that these Managers have all bought quite so badly, or that they will accept big name purchases forced upon them from higher up the club?

More shows to me that it is incredibly difficult to get the balance right.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 09 Mar 22 4.38pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

i agree with all of this, except that I see that their managerial appointments haven't been that 'bad', since Moyes - they appeared entirely reasonable at the time.
Martinez - seen as a ball playing manager, mixed bag at previous jobs. good follow-on from Moyes.
Koeman - good appointment all in. did ok.
Allardyce - I thought he'd do alright here, but was SOO unpopular with the fans. never going to succeed in that environment.
Silva - this Was a flavour of the month. never impressed me previously, but lots of pundits liked him.
Ancelotti - right Coup to get him. showed ambition. and returned with the highest win percentage since Howard kendall
Benitez - marmite appointment, I thought it seemed a reasonably 'safe' appointment at the time, inspite of his 'pool connections. Fans had their way Again. Fans Fury a la allardyce *1000
Lampard - up coming manager. inherited a right sh*t show.

I find it hard to believe that these Managers have all bought quite so badly, or that they will accept big name purchases forced upon them from higher up the club?

More shows to me that it is incredibly difficult to get the balance right.

I do understand your viewpoint and can easily see the logic behind it.

My mind/opinion is however drawn more towards the apparent lack of stability at a football club can only be to it's detriment. I honestly look forward to Watford playing in League 2 in the not distant future.

My diagnosis would be that they have, in the main, spent too much money on name managers, who in turn have bought their own selection of flavour of the month players, over a short period of time, culminating in a 'rag tag' squad of players whose names are only somewhat prestigious operating under a succession of managers struggling to, and inevitably not being able to, form some semblance of a cohesive unit and way of working. I would also be inclined to cite Manure as another example.

The club have desperately attempted to sit at the top table for a long time and stuck with a manager who had them on the peripheries, safely, and their overexcited attempt to make the leap upon his departure has failed, badly.

City - Yeah, well City
Chelsea - Have just poured money on tap into the club which culminates in them even offloading bundles of players with huge talent and/or potential.
Arsenal - Are almost in the same model as Everton however without the financial clout and therefore more/better consideration.
Liverpool - Just slightly inferior finances to likes of City but wise, considered spending.
Spurs - Slightly below the rest in terms of spending but have established a climate/culture of expected failure so still yet to have won anything, but a more stable model if not the most successful..

Everton - Reckless, uninformed (crucial point), reactionary and almost panicked spending spree = the proverbial excrement show that has been highlighted.

United - Same, just a far superior starting position but have fallen far from their permanency at the very Top global table, let alone European or domestic.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 09 Mar 22 6.18pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


Having Minted owners did not rescue QPR from relegation. Nor many other clubs.

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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