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Heading the ball

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dreamwaverider Flag London 24 Feb 20 6.55pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

The FA have recently issued guidelines that no under 12 football player should be allowed to head the ball in training. Its all based on the neuro diseases of retired players like the late Jeff Astle.
Although tragic that Astle died from a neurological disease, traumatic encephalopathy, it would be hard nevertheless to pin the blame on heading a football repeatedly in today's era. Even if we accept that was the cause of Astle's tragic death as per the coroner, the football used in his era was a completely different ball to today's balls. Nowadays they are far lighter and better shaped to undoubtedly cause less damage to the brain from heading them.
In the world we are now in where there is a huge sensitivity towards head injuries in football, most head injuries on the field of play are caused by collisions with other players, not by heading the ball. So are we to say that there should be no bodily contact, or even risk of bodily contact for fear of head injuries?
Anything in life comes with risk, and in the case of sport, all players of their chosen sports are clearly aware of such risks. Obviously there are far more dangerous sports than soccer. Boxing, rugby, cricket, motor racing to name a few. Yet I dont see other sports preventing junior players practising a very important part of their sport in training while still allowing it competitively in a match.
I would suggest that what the FA have just endorsed is not a sensible way forward either for the game or its players at ALL levels. If we are going to have heading competitively then of course it should be allowed in training.
This in my view is an over reaction to a very sad end to a few late players who had an exceptional skill in heading a football in their era. Even though we must accept their is still a risk (albeit very small) of later life illness from heading a football repeatedly, I doubt very much there is or ever has been a footballer who wouldn't have pursued the fun of playing the game just as it has always been even with the knowledge of this risk.

 

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jeeagles Flag 24 Feb 20 7.18pm

Does this simply mean that coaches can't run exercises that involve heading the ball repeatedly?

The FA have a very good and comprehensive guidance on child welfare. Endorsing exercise where children head the ball would be very difficult to achieve and police, and opens up risk of litigation which could be very difficult to defend.

By the sounds of it this rule doesn't cover heading in games/practice games if it's not a pre planned exercise.

Lots more to consider here.

- The FA want kids to spend as much time on the ball as possible. Heading practice doesn't really achieve this.

- Heading is a skill that can be taught later on. The best technique for a header is to put as much force through the ball as possible. Not sure if there is a "safe" was of teaching that.

- Challenging other kids for a high ball is probably more dangerous than heading it self. Cracking heads against each other, or crashing into an accidental lose elbow is still a risk, particularly when night and weight issues are likely.

- I think contact in Rugby comes in at under 10. The first thing they teach the kids is how to fall probably and protect their heads. Tackelling is initially kept to below the waste to reduce the likelihood of head injuries and to promote good techniques. Scrums increase slowly from 3 players to 5 to 7. Limited numbers prevent rucks and mauls getting too big. Most rule changes in recent years have been centred around minimising head and neck injuries. Some of these rules are particularly complicated and have created lots of issues around there implimentation.

I don't think your view is an over reaction. But I cant really see a way they could give guidance for training heading that dont end up contradicting other welfare standards.

 

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becky Flag over the moon 24 Feb 20 9.42pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

I can see some sense in this - back in Jeff Astle's day boys under 12 would only be playing occasional or irregular park or street football which generally, as I recall, involved relatively little heading.

Currently, you now have structured football training sessions available from about 7 years old, which means regular weekly session at least and sometimes more, with games at weekends. A child on a training scheme and playing at school or for a local club would therefore be playing far more often than in the old days.

Under 12 (and indeed up to 17/1 all bones, skull included, are still growing/developing, and although modern balls are lighter, and probably relatively softer than the old dubbin soaked leather ones, I would imaging that there is nowadays the potential for risk of long term damage from heading a ball more frequently. Add to that, as jeeagles says, the risks from aerial collisions and I can understand where the FA are coming from.

 


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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 24 Feb 20 10.48pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by becky

I can see some sense in this - back in Jeff Astle's day boys under 12 would only be playing occasional or irregular park or street football which generally, as I recall, involved relatively little heading.

Currently, you now have structured football training sessions available from about 7 years old, which means regular weekly session at least and sometimes more, with games at weekends. A child on a training scheme and playing at school or for a local club would therefore be playing far more often than in the old days.

Under 12 (and indeed up to 17/1 all bones, skull included, are still growing/developing, and although modern balls are lighter, and probably relatively softer than the old dubbin soaked leather ones, I would imaging that there is nowadays the potential for risk of long term damage from heading a ball more frequently. Add to that, as jeeagles says, the risks from aerial collisions and I can understand where the FA are coming from.

Until we have a period of old age former players that played under 9’s football and onwards with modern balls dying of just old age or suffering with and dying with dementia then we won’t know. Under 9’s football has been going for decades. Under 11’s junior school football a lot longer.

Alan Shearer might be a good test in old age, although I think he’s suffering from a head injury now when he’s on MOTD.

Jeff Astle would have headed a very heavy ball for 5-6 days a week apart from the summer break, for 20 years, and for some time before that.

 


COYP

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Frickin Saweet Flag South Cronx 25 Feb 20 9.50am Send a Private Message to Frickin Saweet Add Frickin Saweet as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The FA have recently issued guidelines that no under 12 football player should be allowed to head the ball in training. Its all based on the neuro diseases of retired players like the late Jeff Astle.
Although tragic that Astle died from a neurological disease, traumatic encephalopathy, it would be hard nevertheless to pin the blame on heading a football repeatedly in today's era. Even if we accept that was the cause of Astle's tragic death as per the coroner, the football used in his era was a completely different ball to today's balls. Nowadays they are far lighter and better shaped to undoubtedly cause less damage to the brain from heading them.
In the world we are now in where there is a huge sensitivity towards head injuries in football, most head injuries on the field of play are caused by collisions with other players, not by heading the ball. So are we to say that there should be no bodily contact, or even risk of bodily contact for fear of head injuries?
Anything in life comes with risk, and in the case of sport, all players of their chosen sports are clearly aware of such risks. Obviously there are far more dangerous sports than soccer. Boxing, rugby, cricket, motor racing to name a few. Yet I dont see other sports preventing junior players practising a very important part of their sport in training while still allowing it competitively in a match.
I would suggest that what the FA have just endorsed is not a sensible way forward either for the game or its players at ALL levels. If we are going to have heading competitively then of course it should be allowed in training.
This in my view is an over reaction to a very sad end to a few late players who had an exceptional skill in heading a football in their era. Even though we must accept their is still a risk (albeit very small) of later life illness from heading a football repeatedly, I doubt very much there is or ever has been a footballer who wouldn't have pursued the un drof playing the game just as it has always been even with the knowledge of this risk.

You're being a bit dramatic. Undeniably there is a link between footballers and early death to neurological disorders, which could be due to heading the ball repeatedly. While more research is being done, they're changing the coaching of youngsters. It's a simple as that.

Your point about most head injuries on the field being caused by collisions is correct, however that is completely different to damage over time by repeatedly heading the ball in training (not matches).

From my understanding, there will still be heading coaching that may use lighter balls, and not rely on just repeatedly heading the ball.

 

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 25 Feb 20 10.28am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The FA have recently issued guidelines that no under 12 football player should be allowed to head the ball in training. Its all based on the neuro diseases of retired players like the late Jeff Astle.
Although tragic that Astle died from a neurological disease, traumatic encephalopathy, it would be hard nevertheless to pin the blame on heading a football repeatedly in today's era. Even if we accept that was the cause of Astle's tragic death as per the coroner, the football used in his era was a completely different ball to today's balls. Nowadays they are far lighter and better shaped to undoubtedly cause less damage to the brain from heading them.
In the world we are now in where there is a huge sensitivity towards head injuries in football, most head injuries on the field of play are caused by collisions with other players, not by heading the ball. So are we to say that there should be no bodily contact, or even risk of bodily contact for fear of head injuries?
Anything in life comes with risk, and in the case of sport, all players of their chosen sports are clearly aware of such risks. Obviously there are far more dangerous sports than soccer. Boxing, rugby, cricket, motor racing to name a few. Yet I dont see other sports preventing junior players practising a very important part of their sport in training while still allowing it competitively in a match.
I would suggest that what the FA have just endorsed is not a sensible way forward either for the game or its players at ALL levels. If we are going to have heading competitively then of course it should be allowed in training.
This in my view is an over reaction to a very sad end to a few late players who had an exceptional skill in heading a football in their era. Even though we must accept their is still a risk (albeit very small) of later life illness from heading a football repeatedly, I doubt very much there is or ever has been a footballer who wouldn't have pursued the fun of playing the game just as it has always been even with the knowledge of this risk.

Some excellent points made in this post.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 25 Feb 20 11.23am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

I’d say that central defenders and central midfielders with today’s footballs are receiving more impact from high balls rather than attacking players that flick the ball on from high keeper kicks or attack lower crosses with less travelling speed, energy and impact in the ball.

We also now have a lot less kicks from the keepers’ hands. These are the worst for impact. The others aren’t even close, especially with today’s balls. However, I do wonder that some defenders think they’re facing enemy fire the way they wimp out defending a shot that affects the result, the league position, their career, the club that pays their wages. I’d like to think in squad video sessions these are replayed but I expect some teams the other players would do exactly the same. We’ve seen Luka do this. I think Tomkins May have done but not sure.

 


COYP

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Teddy Eagle Flag 25 Feb 20 11.54am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


Heading has been banned for under 10s for five years in America and is limited in training up to 13 year olds. It could have been a reaction to health fears over American football which has led to parents encouraging their kids to play “soccer”.
I once saw Roy Barry at Selhurst head a goal kick back to the keeper from his own half. I have a friend who sees him fairly frequently and he’s still going strong at 77.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards grumpymort Flag US/Thailand/UK 25 Feb 20 12.36pm Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Heading has been banned for under 10s for five years in America and is limited in training up to 13 year olds. It could have been a reaction to health fears over American football which has led to parents encouraging their kids to play “soccer”.
I once saw Roy Barry at Selhurst head a goal kick back to the keeper from his own half. I have a friend who sees him fairly frequently and he’s still going strong at 77.


US is iffy the way they do things so it could just be because of insurance or typical misleading of information which is something they do an awful lot in the so called medical field.

Their is no science to back any of this up and never will be because they wont be allowed to conducted the required testing for the studies.

 


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michaelpearce Flag grays 27 Feb 20 5.39pm

I have looked through the posts alot of good points but,i played from the age of 6, im 61 now,played 7 days a week 2 to 3 hours a day until i stopped at 31,still drink and talk to alot of footballing friends,none of them have any brain problems, lots of women have the same issues but they didnt play football so how did there problems start,
For me its people who dont like or cant do sports go out of there way to stop others enjoying there self's doing things they cant do,im not that good at English so lets ban English lessons because its not fair that other people are better than me at English and so on.
We spend to much time, trying to deal with small issues and let bigger ones go

 

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kennybrowns leftfoot Flag Reigate 27 Feb 20 8.31pm Send a Private Message to kennybrowns leftfoot Add kennybrowns leftfoot as a friend

It’s mad isn’t it to think how coaching/safety has changed... I was a centre half and played at a decent level, playing with Clinton Morrison and Jody Morris as a teenager... (obviously they went on to better things than me!!)

My training as a defender was some guy throwing the ball in the air about 30 feet and me having to header it about 50 times a session!!
Funny days!!

 


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Elpis Flag In a pub 28 Feb 20 9.35am Send a Private Message to Elpis Add Elpis as a friend

I think its the old balls that caused the problem .I remember as a kid how heavy they were especially when wet .Heading them was actually painful at times and it was a result just to 'get your nut on it ' let alone actually head it anywhere you wanted to .

When the lighted plastic coated version was introduced I of course had neck muscles like Conan and would easily head the ball out during aerial bombardments . Shame I couldn't actually play the game ,I could have been a contender .(:

So ,I think this is a case of the horse has bolted because 1 the balls are that much lighter and 2 the balls on the ground a lot more than yesteryear .

 

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