The Myth that we are better than we are

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

The Myth that we are better than we are

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 > Last >>

StrangerThing Brisbane 18 Mar 19 7.04am
One of the Aussie commentators last week wheeled out the old "This squad should be further up the league line" Craig Foster, always to be relied upon for an honest assessment, disagreed. He said the two centre backs (Dann and Tomkins) were ordinary at best, the only two players he rated were Zaha and Luca. Obi Wan was good but still very young. When you think about it he has a point. Which of our players apart from the ones mentioned are wanted by clubs further up. Townsend maybe but not by anyone in the top 8. The rest are about at their level with the squad players (Kelly, Ward) perhaps ready for the championship. Ayew was on the bench this weekend but I doubt anyone at the club wants him, Reidewald doesnt even get used, Wickham the same and Benteke outscores most other PL centre forwards but only in the number of post dedicated to his uselessness. We just might be overachieving!
Alert a moderator to this post

StrangerThing

Brisbane 18 Mar 19 7.04am

One of the Aussie commentators last week wheeled out the old "This squad should be further up the league line" Craig Foster, always to be relied upon for an honest assessment, disagreed. He said the two centre backs (Dann and Tomkins) were ordinary at best, the only two players he rated were Zaha and Luca. Obi Wan was good but still very young.

When you think about it he has a point. Which of our players apart from the ones mentioned are wanted by clubs further up. Townsend maybe but not by anyone in the top 8. The rest are about at their level with the squad players (Kelly, Ward) perhaps ready for the championship. Ayew was on the bench this weekend but I doubt anyone at the club wants him, Reidewald doesnt even get used, Wickham the same and Benteke outscores most other PL centre forwards but only in the number of post dedicated to his uselessness.
We just might be overachieving!

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 18 Mar 19 7.12am
Originally posted by StrangerThing One of the Aussie commentators last week wheeled out the old "This squad should be further up the league line" Craig Foster, always to be relied upon for an honest assessment, disagreed. He said the two centre backs (Dann and Tomkins) were ordinary at best, the only two players he rated were Zaha and Luca. Obi Wan was good but still very young. When you think about it he has a point. Which of our players apart from the ones mentioned are wanted by clubs further up. Townsend maybe but not by anyone in the top 8. The rest are about at their level with the squad players (Kelly, Ward) perhaps ready for the championship. Ayew was on the bench this weekend but I doubt anyone at the club wants him, Reidewald doesnt even get used, Wickham the same and Benteke outscores most other PL centre forwards but only in the number of post dedicated to his uselessness. We just might be overachieving! The standard in the Premiership top tier is very high, world class level.....So it's fair enough to say that most of our players are up there but not at top six level.....It's all about the money. I think our centre backs are better than the summary but we certainly aren't unfairly positioned.....I think only Zaha and Wan B would find themselves in the top six. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Mar 2019 7.13am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

18 Mar 19 7.12am

Originally posted by StrangerThing

The standard in the Premiership top tier is very high, world class level.....So it's fair enough to say that most of our players are up there but not at top six level.....It's all about the money.

I think our centre backs are better than the summary but we certainly aren't unfairly positioned.....I think only Zaha and Wan B would find themselves in the top six.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Mar 2019 7.13am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

samprior Hamburg 18 Mar 19 7.17am
I'd say to have 3 players (wilf, aaron and luka) that the top 8 could want is fairly good. Take a look through the other teams outside the top 8 and it's pretty much the same. Plus I don't think there's many teams who could say they have two players who a top 4 team would love to snap up.
Alert a moderator to this post

samprior

Hamburg 18 Mar 19 7.17am

I'd say to have 3 players (wilf, aaron and luka) that the top 8 could want is fairly good. Take a look through the other teams outside the top 8 and it's pretty much the same. Plus I don't think there's many teams who could say they have two players who a top 4 team would love to snap up.

Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC Wantage 18 Mar 19 7.34am
Have to disagree. We can field a starting 11, when fit, that is better than the starting 11 of 12 other premier League teams in my opinion. Perhaps it's true that we have only Zaha and AWB who are top 4 quality, but that's 2 more than Watford, Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc, and one more than WHU, Liecester, Everton. I think we should be realistically competing for top 8 and would consider Luka, Kouyate, Sakho, Tomkins, Townshend of being worthy of that quality. Squad depth is a problem, but that's true of at least ten other teams: who do Bournemouth, Everton, Watford have on the bench? When injuries hit you look for the incoming players to be 20% better then they actually are as they're playing for a place and the rest of the team to come together so that the machine as a whole can be better than the sum of its parts. Do you honestly believe Dann, Ward, Kelly are that far off the standard when they have to deputise occasionally against the likes of Brighton or Huddersfield? I don't. We're where we are because of poor management. Corners at both ends are a massive problem, yet we have proven capability. This is coaching. We have fit strikers since January and choices of positive central mids like Kouyate and Meyer or defensive options like Macca and Schlupp which can be used as subs or to start. They are usually negative options: This is poor management. PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management. I'll end by saying that I wouldn't consider Craig Foster an authority on the matter. He was on high wages and reportedly refused to leave when we were in financial difficulty. He was a waste of a shirt, not even bang average on his day. If we applied his attitude and ability across the squad we'd already be relegated. Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am) Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am)
Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC

Wantage 18 Mar 19 7.34am

Have to disagree.

We can field a starting 11, when fit, that is better than the starting 11 of 12 other premier League teams in my opinion. Perhaps it's true that we have only Zaha and AWB who are top 4 quality, but that's 2 more than Watford, Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc, and one more than WHU, Liecester, Everton. I think we should be realistically competing for top 8 and would consider Luka, Kouyate, Sakho, Tomkins, Townshend of being worthy of that quality.

Squad depth is a problem, but that's true of at least ten other teams: who do Bournemouth, Everton, Watford have on the bench? When injuries hit you look for the incoming players to be 20% better then they actually are as they're playing for a place and the rest of the team to come together so that the machine as a whole can be better than the sum of its parts. Do you honestly believe Dann, Ward, Kelly are that far off the standard when they have to deputise occasionally against the likes of Brighton or Huddersfield? I don't.
We're where we are because of poor management. Corners at both ends are a massive problem, yet we have proven capability. This is coaching. We have fit strikers since January and choices of positive central mids like Kouyate and Meyer or defensive options like Macca and Schlupp which can be used as subs or to start. They are usually negative options: This is poor management.

PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management.

I'll end by saying that I wouldn't consider Craig Foster an authority on the matter. He was on high wages and reportedly refused to leave when we were in financial difficulty. He was a waste of a shirt, not even bang average on his day. If we applied his attitude and ability across the squad we'd already be relegated.

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am)

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am)

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 18 Mar 19 8.14am
Originally posted by ChrisGC Have to disagree. We can field a starting 11, when fit, that is better than the starting 11 of 12 other premier League teams in my opinion. Perhaps it's true that we have only Zaha and AWB who are top 4 quality, but that's 2 more than Watford, Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc, and one more than WHU, Liecester, Everton. I think we should be realistically competing for top 8 and would consider Luka, Kouyate, Sakho, Tomkins, Townshend of being worthy of that quality. Squad depth is a problem, but that's true of at least ten other teams: who do Bournemouth, Everton, Watford have on the bench? When injuries hit you look for the incoming players to be 20% better then they actually are as they're playing for a place and the rest of the team to come together so that the machine as a whole can be better than the sum of its parts. Do you honestly believe Dann, Ward, Kelly are that far off the standard when they have to deputise occasionally against the likes of Brighton or Huddersfield? I don't. We're where we are because of poor management. Corners at both ends are a massive problem, yet we have proven capability. This is coaching. We have fit strikers since January and choices of positive central mids like Kouyate and Meyer or defensive options like Macca and Schlupp which can be used as subs or to start. They are usually negative options: This is poor management. PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management. I'll end by saying that I wouldn't consider Craig Foster an authority on the matter. He was on high wages and reportedly refused to leave when we were in financial difficulty. He was a waste of a shirt, not even bang average on his day. If we applied his attitude and ability across the squad we'd already be relegated. Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am) Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am) An interesting post as always Chris, I'd say Sakho for sure and Tomkins could probably get into a top eight.....Maybe Townshend by the skin of his teeth. Tomkins should be in the England Squad.....worse centre halfs have caps than him. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

18 Mar 19 8.14am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Have to disagree.

PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management.

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am)

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am)

An interesting post as always Chris, I'd say Sakho for sure and Tomkins could probably get into a top eight.....Maybe Townshend by the skin of his teeth.

Tomkins should be in the England Squad.....worse centre halfs have caps than him.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Tickled pink Cornwall 18 Mar 19 8.16am
Originally posted by StrangerThing One of the Aussie commentators last week wheeled out the old "This squad should be further up the league line" Craig Foster, always to be relied upon for an honest assessment, disagreed. He said the two centre backs (Dann and Tomkins) were ordinary at best, the only two players he rated were Zaha and Luca. Obi Wan was good but still very young. When you think about it he has a point. Which of our players apart from the ones mentioned are wanted by clubs further up. Townsend maybe but not by anyone in the top 8. The rest are about at their level with the squad players (Kelly, Ward) perhaps ready for the championship. Ayew was on the bench this weekend but I doubt anyone at the club wants him, Reidewald doesnt even get used, Wickham the same and Benteke outscores most other PL centre forwards but only in the number of post dedicated to his uselessness. We just might be overachieving! Yes most definitely and this just shows how important Roy Hodgson has been in keeping us above the drop, being unable to replace the likes of Murray and spending fortunes to do so has meant other areas of the pitch being given less attention, our home form is what we are.
Alert a moderator to this post

Tickled pink

Cornwall 18 Mar 19 8.16am

Originally posted by StrangerThing

Yes most definitely and this just shows how important Roy Hodgson has been in keeping us above the drop, being unable to replace the likes of Murray and spending fortunes to do so has meant other areas of the pitch being given less attention, our home form is what we are.

Alert a moderator to this post

Tickled pink Cornwall 18 Mar 19 8.23am
Originally posted by ChrisGC Have to disagree. We can field a starting 11, when fit, that is better than the starting 11 of 12 other premier League teams in my opinion. Perhaps it's true that we have only Zaha and AWB who are top 4 quality, but that's 2 more than Watford, Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc, and one more than WHU, Liecester, Everton. I think we should be realistically competing for top 8 and would consider Luka, Kouyate, Sakho, Tomkins, Townshend of being worthy of that quality. Squad depth is a problem, but that's true of at least ten other teams: who do Bournemouth, Everton, Watford have on the bench? When injuries hit you look for the incoming players to be 20% better then they actually are as they're playing for a place and the rest of the team to come together so that the machine as a whole can be better than the sum of its parts. Do you honestly believe Dann, Ward, Kelly are that far off the standard when they have to deputise occasionally against the likes of Brighton or Huddersfield? I don't. We're where we are because of poor management. Corners at both ends are a massive problem, yet we have proven capability. This is coaching. We have fit strikers since January and choices of positive central mids like Kouyate and Meyer or defensive options like Macca and Schlupp which can be used as subs or to start. They are usually negative options: This is poor management. PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management. I'll end by saying that I wouldn't consider Craig Foster an authority on the matter. He was on high wages and reportedly refused to leave when we were in financial difficulty. He was a waste of a shirt, not even bang average on his day. If we applied his attitude and ability across the squad we'd already be relegated. Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am) Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am) The ability of some of our players to pass to another who is only about four feet away is down to Mr Hodgson then is it?
Alert a moderator to this post

Tickled pink

Cornwall 18 Mar 19 8.23am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Have to disagree.

PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management.

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am)

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am)

The ability of some of our players to pass to another who is only about four feet away is down to Mr Hodgson then is it?

Alert a moderator to this post

Tickled pink Cornwall 18 Mar 19 8.26am
..and corners are overrated. Edited by Tickled pink (18 Mar 2019 8.33am)
Alert a moderator to this post

Tickled pink

Cornwall 18 Mar 19 8.26am

..and corners are overrated.

Edited by Tickled pink (18 Mar 2019 8.33am)

Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC Wantage 18 Mar 19 8.26am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays An interesting post as always Chris, I'd say Sakho for sure and Tomkins could probably get into a top eight.....Maybe Townshend by the skin of his teeth. Tomkins should be in the England Squad.....worse centre halfs have caps than him. Agree until the last couple of games, but then he might just need a rest. He's been second only the AWB this season overall. I think Townsend is one of our more frustrating players who clearly needs coaching. Sammy Lee got the best out of him. A lot of the players could be doing better. PVA has needed dropping for a while, Meyer is clearly a quality footballer but needs direction, Macca is a good squad player who should be deputising, not starting, the goalies are prone to clangers which can be coached out, all of these performance problems are coaching related.
Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC

Wantage 18 Mar 19 8.26am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

An interesting post as always Chris, I'd say Sakho for sure and Tomkins could probably get into a top eight.....Maybe Townshend by the skin of his teeth.

Tomkins should be in the England Squad.....worse centre halfs have caps than him.

Agree until the last couple of games, but then he might just need a rest. He's been second only the AWB this season overall.

I think Townsend is one of our more frustrating players who clearly needs coaching. Sammy Lee got the best out of him.

A lot of the players could be doing better. PVA has needed dropping for a while, Meyer is clearly a quality footballer but needs direction, Macca is a good squad player who should be deputising, not starting, the goalies are prone to clangers which can be coached out, all of these performance problems are coaching related.

Alert a moderator to this post

Painter Croydon 18 Mar 19 8.31am
Originally posted by ChrisGC Have to disagree. We can field a starting 11, when fit, that is better than the starting 11 of 12 other premier League teams in my opinion. Perhaps it's true that we have only Zaha and AWB who are top 4 quality, but that's 2 more than Watford, Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc, and one more than WHU, Liecester, Everton. I think we should be realistically competing for top 8 and would consider Luka, Kouyate, Sakho, Tomkins, Townshend of being worthy of that quality. Squad depth is a problem, but that's true of at least ten other teams: who do Bournemouth, Everton, Watford have on the bench? When injuries hit you look for the incoming players to be 20% better then they actually are as they're playing for a place and the rest of the team to come together so that the machine as a whole can be better than the sum of its parts. Do you honestly believe Dann, Ward, Kelly are that far off the standard when they have to deputise occasionally against the likes of Brighton or Huddersfield? I don't. We're where we are because of poor management. Corners at both ends are a massive problem, yet we have proven capability. This is coaching. We have fit strikers since January and choices of positive central mids like Kouyate and Meyer or defensive options like Macca and Schlupp which can be used as subs or to start. They are usually negative options: This is poor management. PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management. I'll end by saying that I wouldn't consider Craig Foster an authority on the matter. He was on high wages and reportedly refused to leave when we were in financial difficulty. He was a waste of a shirt, not even bang average on his day. If we applied his attitude and ability across the squad we'd already be relegated. Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am) Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am) You seem to think, we are better than we actually are. There has been an array of different managers since our promotion, but we still basically in the same position. The league table doesn’t lie, the odd result maybe, but not over a season.
Alert a moderator to this post

Painter

Croydon 18 Mar 19 8.31am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Have to disagree.

PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management.

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am)

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am)

You seem to think, we are better than we actually are. There has been an array of different managers since our promotion, but we still basically in the same position. The league table doesn’t lie, the odd result maybe, but not over a season.

Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC Wantage 18 Mar 19 8.33am
Originally posted by Tickled pink Corners are overrated and you know that. Whilst I find your view point an interesting take, and would agree it's a better option than how we take them (which is just giving possession back to the opponent) I think every corner is the chance of a goal. Even moreso now referees are looking to give penalties for any kind of contact. The improvement of defending and attacking of corners would be the number one priority of any incoming manager. What's the point of having all that defensive structure if you're bound to concede a goal to a corner every game? It doesn't make sense to me. Nor does having scored maybe one goal all season from corners when we play wide and get at least 4 a game. That's a return of 1 goal for 120 attempts. That's criminal! Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 8.37am)
Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC

Wantage 18 Mar 19 8.33am

Originally posted by Tickled pink

Corners are overrated and you know that.

Whilst I find your view point an interesting take, and would agree it's a better option than how we take them (which is just giving possession back to the opponent) I think every corner is the chance of a goal. Even moreso now referees are looking to give penalties for any kind of contact.

The improvement of defending and attacking of corners would be the number one priority of any incoming manager.

What's the point of having all that defensive structure if you're bound to concede a goal to a corner every game? It doesn't make sense to me. Nor does having scored maybe one goal all season from corners when we play wide and get at least 4 a game. That's a return of 1 goal for 120 attempts. That's criminal!

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 8.37am)

Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC Wantage 18 Mar 19 8.36am
Originally posted by Painter You seem to think, we are better than we actually are. There has been an array of different managers since our promotion, but we still basically in the same position. The league table doesn’t lie, the odd result maybe, but not over a season. Correction: "You seem to think we're better than I think we are" I explained my opinion. You justified yours by saying you accept the status quo, which can be analysed on merit of each season to tell an overall story of either over or underachievement, which I would say isn't relevant to where we are today.
Alert a moderator to this post

ChrisGC

Wantage 18 Mar 19 8.36am

Originally posted by Painter

You seem to think, we are better than we actually are. There has been an array of different managers since our promotion, but we still basically in the same position. The league table doesn’t lie, the odd result maybe, but not over a season.

Correction:

"You seem to think we're better than I think we are"

I explained my opinion. You justified yours by saying you accept the status quo, which can be analysed on merit of each season to tell an overall story of either over or underachievement, which I would say isn't relevant to where we are today.

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 > Last >>

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

The Myth that we are better than we are

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors