Leaving Neverland

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Leaving Neverland

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JohnB 08 Mar 19 4.56pm
I missed it over the last couple of nights but plan on watching it over catch up. From what I've read online it seems to be quite divisive in terms of whether people think he was or wasn't. Just curious, if it turned out that one of your favourite artists, in terms of music or acting etc. turned out to be a paedo, would that stop you listening to their music or films?
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JohnB

08 Mar 19 4.56pm

I missed it over the last couple of nights but plan on watching it over catch up.

From what I've read online it seems to be quite divisive in terms of whether people think he was or wasn't.

Just curious, if it turned out that one of your favourite artists, in terms of music or acting etc. turned out to be a paedo, would that stop you listening to their music or films?

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Mar 19 5.25pm
I saw both parts and it’s worth watching. I believe that: He did Groom and molest these children. The 2 boy dancers in these documentary interviews I believe are telling the truth. When you see it you’ll see why. He might have started off just being friendly with them after missing out on his childhood but having no sex in his life may have developed into sexual desire. This was only briefly mentioned late on in the 2nd one. Sleeping with boys 365 days a year and not doing anything sexual. Just watching videos and playing video games, eating popcorn. No chance. His early stuff in Off The Wall was phenomenal imo and as it was before these sexual relationships I don’t feel bad about liking this early material, if I should. Maybe he hadn’t done anything until after Thriller. That’s possible. The only other person I can think of who I like their acting or music is Kevin Spacey but there’s only a few good films. Ronnie Kray being a grooming paedophile doesn’t stop lots of wannabes idolising him and they’re the ones who obsess about paedophilia. Edited by Rudi Hedman (08 Mar 2019 5.26pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Mar 19 5.25pm

I saw both parts and it’s worth watching. I believe that:

He did Groom and molest these children.

The 2 boy dancers in these documentary interviews I believe are telling the truth. When you see it you’ll see why.

He might have started off just being friendly with them after missing out on his childhood but having no sex in his life may have developed into sexual desire. This was only briefly mentioned late on in the 2nd one. Sleeping with boys 365 days a year and not doing anything sexual. Just watching videos and playing video games, eating popcorn. No chance.

His early stuff in Off The Wall was phenomenal imo and as it was before these sexual relationships I don’t feel bad about liking this early material, if I should. Maybe he hadn’t done anything until after Thriller. That’s possible.

The only other person I can think of who I like their acting or music is Kevin Spacey but there’s only a few good films.

Ronnie Kray being a grooming paedophile doesn’t stop lots of wannabes idolising him and they’re the ones who obsess about paedophilia.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (08 Mar 2019 5.26pm)

COYP

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Stirlingsays 08 Mar 19 5.47pm
We had a massive trial when Jackson was alive. The result was an acquittal. Now he's dead and there is money to be made. Was Jackson a paedo? I have my suspicions, however you need proper evidence. I don't do 'listen and believe'. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 5.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Mar 19 5.47pm

We had a massive trial when Jackson was alive.

The result was an acquittal.

Now he's dead and there is money to be made.

Was Jackson a paedo? I have my suspicions, however you need proper evidence. I don't do 'listen and believe'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 5.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Mar 19 5.55pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays We had a massive trial when Jackson was alive. The result was an acquittal. Now he's dead and there is money to be made. Was Jackson a paedo? I have my suspicions, however you need proper evidence. I don't do 'listen and believe'. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 5.48pm) Thing is they have successful careers. Because of MJ, yes, but I don’t think they need the money. There’s actually more damage from publicity than keeping it between you and your counsellor. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Mar 19 5.55pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

We had a massive trial when Jackson was alive.

The result was an acquittal.

Now he's dead and there is money to be made.

Was Jackson a paedo? I have my suspicions, however you need proper evidence. I don't do 'listen and believe'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 5.48pm)

Thing is they have successful careers. Because of MJ, yes, but I don’t think they need the money. There’s actually more damage from publicity than keeping it between you and your counsellor.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 08 Mar 19 6.08pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Thing is they have successful careers. Because of MJ, yes, but I don’t think they need the money. There’s actually more damage from publicity than keeping it between you and your counsellor. I saw a video clip from one of these dancers when he was in a show celebrating Jackson just a few months before these claims. He was calling the accusations baseless even then. Then the show was cancelled... Now I'm expected to believe him? There were many boys sent up to that mansion with Jackson.....by frankly parents I doubt the sanity or motives of. I have my suspicions. However, if we are going to do, 'listen and believe' why aren't we believing people like Macaulay Culkin and Jackson's former wives....especially first wife Lisa Marie Presley....who had major disputes with Jackson post marriage but never this.....Money is hardly going to be a motive for these two is it. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 6.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Mar 19 6.08pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Thing is they have successful careers. Because of MJ, yes, but I don’t think they need the money. There’s actually more damage from publicity than keeping it between you and your counsellor.

I saw a video clip from one of these dancers when he was in a show celebrating Jackson just a few months before these claims. He was calling the accusations baseless even then. Then the show was cancelled...

Now I'm expected to believe him?

There were many boys sent up to that mansion with Jackson.....by frankly parents I doubt the sanity or motives of. I have my suspicions.

However, if we are going to do, 'listen and believe' why aren't we believing people like Macaulay Culkin and Jackson's former wives....especially first wife Lisa Marie Presley....who had major disputes with Jackson post marriage but never this.....Money is hardly going to be a motive for these two is it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 6.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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the.universal 08 Mar 19 6.14pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I saw a video clip from one of these dancers when he was in a show celebrating Jackson just a few months before these claims. He was calling the accusations baseless even then. Then the show was cancelled... Now I'm expected to believe him? There were many boys sent up to that mansion with Jackson.....by frankly parents I doubt the sanity or motives of. I have my suspicions. However, if we are going to do, 'listen and believe' why aren't we believing people like Macaulay Culkin and Jackson's former wives....especially first wife Lisa Marie Presley....who had major disputes with Jackson post marriage but never this.....Money is hardly going to be a motive for these two is it. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 6.09pm) Character witnesses are, in my opinion, complete bulls***. Anyone can find a mate who thinks they are a decent person. There might be a lot of people who think someone isn’t a paedophile, but what is that based on? We’ll never get to the bottom of this case legally, so it’s make your mind up time. The answer is quite clear to me. R Kelly, Spacey, OJ Simpson.... same answer. Vive le Roy!
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the.universal 08 Mar 19 6.14pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Now I'm expected to believe him?

There were many boys sent up to that mansion with Jackson.....by frankly parents I doubt the sanity or motives of. I have my suspicions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 6.09pm)

Character witnesses are, in my opinion, complete bulls***. Anyone can find a mate who thinks they are a decent person.

There might be a lot of people who think someone isn’t a paedophile, but what is that based on? We’ll never get to the bottom of this case legally, so it’s make your mind up time.

The answer is quite clear to me. R Kelly, Spacey, OJ Simpson.... same answer.

Vive le Roy!

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Stirlingsays 08 Mar 19 6.21pm
Originally posted by the.universal Character witnesses are, in my opinion, complete bulls***. Anyone can find a mate who thinks they are a decent person. There might be a lot of people who think someone isn’t a paedophile, but what is that based on? We’ll never get to the bottom of this case legally, so it’s make your mind up time. The answer is quite clear to me. R Kelly, Spacey, OJ Simpson.... same answer. With Simpson we had so much physical evidence that it's beyond a sensible question. Spacey seems to have admitted to something but not necessary what he's been accused of....I don't know anything about Kelly. Listen and believe isn't worth much. However, I wouldn't have let my kids within ten feet of Jackson simply because this guy clearly had multiple screws loose. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Mar 19 6.21pm

Originally posted by the.universal

Character witnesses are, in my opinion, complete bulls***. Anyone can find a mate who thinks they are a decent person.

There might be a lot of people who think someone isn’t a paedophile, but what is that based on? We’ll never get to the bottom of this case legally, so it’s make your mind up time.

The answer is quite clear to me. R Kelly, Spacey, OJ Simpson.... same answer.

With Simpson we had so much physical evidence that it's beyond a sensible question. Spacey seems to have admitted to something but not necessary what he's been accused of....I don't know anything about Kelly.

Listen and believe isn't worth much. However, I wouldn't have let my kids within ten feet of Jackson simply because this guy clearly had multiple screws loose.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Mar 19 6.36pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I saw a video clip from one of these dancers when he was in a show celebrating Jackson just a few months before these claims. He was calling the accusations baseless even then. Then the show was cancelled... Now I'm expected to believe him? There were many boys sent up to that mansion with Jackson.....by frankly parents I doubt the sanity or motives of. I have my suspicions. However, if we are going to do, 'listen and believe' why aren't we believing people like Macaulay Culkin and Jackson's former wives....especially first wife Lisa Marie Presley....who had major disputes with Jackson post marriage but never this.....Money is hardly going to be a motive for these two is it. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 6.09pm) You make a good case (legal). Know where this video can be found? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Mar 19 6.36pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Now I'm expected to believe him?

There were many boys sent up to that mansion with Jackson.....by frankly parents I doubt the sanity or motives of. I have my suspicions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 6.09pm)

You make a good case (legal). Know where this video can be found?

COYP

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Stirlingsays 08 Mar 19 7.15pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman You make a good case (legal). Know where this video can be found? It's at 8 minutes 16 seconds of this video.....which I watched. The whole video is a rather good skeptical look at the claims. [Link] I'm not criticising you of course. I'm just saying that I don't know but I have my suspicions simply based upon my cynicism both of Jackson......but also of the accusers. People sending their kids up to that mansion needed their heads examined.....or were simply the worst kind of people. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 7.18pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Mar 19 7.15pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You make a good case (legal). Know where this video can be found?

It's at 8 minutes 16 seconds of this video.....which I watched.

The whole video is a rather good skeptical look at the claims.

[Link]

I'm not criticising you of course. I'm just saying that I don't know but I have my suspicions simply based upon my cynicism both of Jackson......but also of the accusers.

People sending their kids up to that mansion needed their heads examined.....or were simply the worst kind of people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2019 7.18pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Invalid user 2019 08 Mar 19 8.42pm
Originally posted by JohnB I missed it over the last couple of nights but plan on watching it over catch up. From what I've read online it seems to be quite divisive in terms of whether people think he was or wasn't. Just curious, if it turned out that one of your favourite artists, in terms of music or acting etc. turned out to be a paedo, would that stop you listening to their music or films? It was painful to watch and one of the families appears to have been completely emotionally obliterated, with a lot of blame attributed to how a parent could leave a kid with someone as unusual as MJ. I think the warped 'normality' of abuse at the time vs how huge it would be to state publicly leads to a very all or nothing approach to dealing with it. Absolute denial at all costs, or to reveal it in all its horror. There's no half way house, no 'I was kinda sorta abused for years', once it's out it's out and it changes everything, so I can understand earlier denials. Let us know what you think once you've seen it. I had hoped to find their telling of events to be less believable than I did.
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Invalid user 2019

08 Mar 19 8.42pm

Originally posted by JohnB

I missed it over the last couple of nights but plan on watching it over catch up.

From what I've read online it seems to be quite divisive in terms of whether people think he was or wasn't.

Just curious, if it turned out that one of your favourite artists, in terms of music or acting etc. turned out to be a paedo, would that stop you listening to their music or films?

It was painful to watch and one of the families appears to have been completely emotionally obliterated, with a lot of blame attributed to how a parent could leave a kid with someone as unusual as MJ.

I think the warped 'normality' of abuse at the time vs how huge it would be to state publicly leads to a very all or nothing approach to dealing with it. Absolute denial at all costs, or to reveal it in all its horror. There's no half way house, no 'I was kinda sorta abused for years', once it's out it's out and it changes everything, so I can understand earlier denials.

Let us know what you think once you've seen it. I had hoped to find their telling of events to be less believable than I did.

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ChrisGC Wantage 09 Mar 19 6.10am
The descriptions got so graphic I thought to myself: I wouldn't watch what they're describing, so why am I listening to it? It was f***ing awful. Seems he probably was a nonce but as SS has pointed out, it's all very convenient on the accusers' part that he's brown bread. I saw enough to decide that the parents were glorified pimps. They consented to their kids sleeping in a bed alone with an adult stranger. Jacko might be dead but they're not. If anyone deserves to face criminal charges it's them, so why aren't they?
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ChrisGC

Wantage 09 Mar 19 6.10am

The descriptions got so graphic I thought to myself:
I wouldn't watch what they're describing, so why am I listening to it? It was f***ing awful.

Seems he probably was a nonce but as SS has pointed out, it's all very convenient on the accusers' part that he's brown bread.
I saw enough to decide that the parents were glorified pimps. They consented to their kids sleeping in a bed alone with an adult stranger.
Jacko might be dead but they're not. If anyone deserves to face criminal charges it's them, so why aren't they?

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Stirlingsays 09 Mar 19 6.24am
Originally posted by ChrisGC The descriptions got so graphic I thought to myself: I wouldn't watch what they're describing, so why am I listening to it? It was f***ing awful. Seems he probably was a nonce but as SS has pointed out, it's all very convenient on the accusers' part that he's brown bread. I saw enough to decide that the parents were glorified pimps. They consented to their kids sleeping in a bed alone with an adult stranger. Jacko might be dead but they're not. If anyone deserves to face criminal charges it's them, so why aren't they? I most definitely could be wrong about this.....however, he had the trial and he walked. I'm not here defending Jackson but rather due process.... I'm just saying I don't know, but I'm suspicious. I agree with you Chris, these parents must be loopy as he was or they were deliberately placing their kids into this situation because they knew that if he liked the child that it was a lawsuit down the line. It seems that normality just wasn't a word that could be associated with Jackson in pretty much any sphere of his life. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Mar 2019 7.58am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 Mar 19 6.24am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

The descriptions got so graphic I thought to myself:
I wouldn't watch what they're describing, so why am I listening to it? It was f***ing awful.

I most definitely could be wrong about this.....however, he had the trial and he walked.

I'm not here defending Jackson but rather due process.... I'm just saying I don't know, but I'm suspicious.

I agree with you Chris, these parents must be loopy as he was or they were deliberately placing their kids into this situation because they knew that if he liked the child that it was a lawsuit down the line.

It seems that normality just wasn't a word that could be associated with Jackson in pretty much any sphere of his life.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Mar 2019 7.58am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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