Journalism,.....is changing

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Journalism,.....is changing

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 25 Feb 19 3.34pm
I am an olde duffer. But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc. I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician. More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts. There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed. I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation. Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected. I think people need to open their minds Maybe it's me getting old. opinions welcomed I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 25 Feb 19 3.34pm

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I am an olde duffer.
But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc.

I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician.
More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts.

There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed.

I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation.
Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected.
I think people need to open their minds

Maybe it's me getting old.

opinions welcomed

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Frickin Saweet South Cronx 25 Feb 19 4.25pm
you're not wrong. This may help but it will be a slow process to turn the tide on fake news, clickbait and encourage fact-based quality journalism back to mainstream news [Link]
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Frickin Saweet

South Cronx 25 Feb 19 4.25pm

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you're not wrong. This may help but it will be a slow process to turn the tide on fake news, clickbait and encourage fact-based quality journalism back to mainstream news

[Link]

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Part Time James 25 Feb 19 4.32pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I am an olde duffer. But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc. I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician. More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts. There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed. I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation. Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected. I think people need to open their minds Maybe it's me getting old. opinions welcomed I agree. To avoid being embroiled in a debate about anything emotive, an example that bothers me is that I like to read a lot about fitness and training techniques. I have reached a point where I believe almost nothing I read because there are so many supplement companies that can influence articles to be written in such a way that the reader is pushed towards their products. Ok, I think the same sort of thing about political stories too. I always think "Could the publisher of this story have a vested interest in leading the reader?" and the answer is usually "yes". I tend to read articles that contradict my beliefs, as well as ones that resonate with my beliefs, with a raised eyebrow these days. I think we all should.
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Part Time James

25 Feb 19 4.32pm

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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I am an olde duffer.
But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc.

There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed.

Maybe it's me getting old.

opinions welcomed

I agree. To avoid being embroiled in a debate about anything emotive, an example that bothers me is that I like to read a lot about fitness and training techniques. I have reached a point where I believe almost nothing I read because there are so many supplement companies that can influence articles to be written in such a way that the reader is pushed towards their products.

Ok, I think the same sort of thing about political stories too. I always think "Could the publisher of this story have a vested interest in leading the reader?" and the answer is usually "yes". I tend to read articles that contradict my beliefs, as well as ones that resonate with my beliefs, with a raised eyebrow these days. I think we all should.

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 25 Feb 19 4.47pm
Years ago, & FH will remember this, in the mainstream papers ie Fleet St, ALL the 'red-tops' were Labour & all the 'broad sheets' were Conservative. Guess this all changed when Murdoch et al bought out most of the broad sheets & then changed the landscape of political influence forever. Now, you've got the nations flagship broadcaster so politically left wing & anti Brexit, click bait on every platform, including on here. You have social media influencing young minds & older minds too, that most people(imo) don't know who to believe anymore. Gone are the days when you voted the way that your parents did(till you finally left home). Don't get me wrong, kids today have a lot more freedom of choice than we ever did & that's no bad thing. Have I wandered away from the original point? If so, sorry FH. This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 25 Feb 19 4.47pm

Years ago, & FH will remember this, in the mainstream papers ie Fleet St, ALL the 'red-tops' were Labour & all the 'broad sheets' were Conservative.

Guess this all changed when Murdoch et al bought out most of the broad sheets & then changed the landscape of political influence forever.

Now, you've got the nations flagship broadcaster so politically left wing & anti Brexit, click bait on every platform, including on here. You have social media influencing young minds & older minds too, that most people(imo) don't know who to believe anymore.

Gone are the days when you voted the way that your parents did(till you finally left home). Don't get me wrong, kids today have a lot more freedom of choice than we ever did & that's no bad thing.

Have I wandered away from the original point? If so, sorry FH.

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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ChrisGC Wantage 25 Feb 19 7.09pm
The only redeeming feature of social media is that it's given everybody their own microphone to project their version and challenge MSM. It's then up to the viewer to decide what they believe. Main stream media is increasingly creating a narrative and then looking for soundbites to suit. This is true across the spectrum. What I find ironic is people shouting "you were lied to" to try and denigrate, when really, if you took a position based on what any politician or media outlet says it's a very hypocritical thing to say. Reporting of facts and even opinion pieces based on facts are increasingly rare.
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ChrisGC

Wantage 25 Feb 19 7.09pm

The only redeeming feature of social media is that it's given everybody their own microphone to project their version and challenge MSM. It's then up to the viewer to decide what they believe.

Main stream media is increasingly creating a narrative and then looking for soundbites to suit. This is true across the spectrum.

What I find ironic is people shouting "you were lied to" to try and denigrate, when really, if you took a position based on what any politician or media outlet says it's a very hypocritical thing to say.

Reporting of facts and even opinion pieces based on facts are increasingly rare.

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Stirlingsays 25 Feb 19 7.41pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I am an olde duffer. But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc. I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician. More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts. There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed. I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation. Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected. I think people need to open their minds Maybe it's me getting old. opinions welcomed Money is the prime mover of all things. What is rewarded is encouraged. The nature of journalism has changed as fewer and fewer people take their news from printed sources. That being the case the fiscal rewards are to be found in views to an article or website...So the more popular something is the more advertisers wish to use it....or with alternative news the more patrons will pay to support it. So essentially we are back to the tabloid issue but digitally. So like the tabloids have always done simplistic depictions of reality that come with 'per-digested' thinking are offered that mostly parrot back the views of the viewer to ensure they continue to patronise the product. News and views becomes more more of a consumer product than before.....You choose your angle, the news outlet feeds it back to you. When it comes to politics the widening out of information sources means that what is considered 'news' can no longer be contained to a few accepted sources who control the narrative. So the groups that have always existed no longer have to contend with each other and instead can just talk amongst themselves. The result of this is that they each become bolder versions of themselves each convinced in the correctness of their respective visions. Of course 'normies' and those amongst the elderly who don't wish to keep up will continue to use the mainstream outlets and parrot the narratives fed to them but for that demographic that's how it always was.....but their numbers reduce with each passing day. I don't suggest that as a good or bad thing but just as a reality. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Feb 2019 7.46pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Feb 19 7.41pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I am an olde duffer.
But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc.

There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed.

Maybe it's me getting old.

opinions welcomed

Money is the prime mover of all things. What is rewarded is encouraged.

The nature of journalism has changed as fewer and fewer people take their news from printed sources.

That being the case the fiscal rewards are to be found in views to an article or website...So the more popular something is the more advertisers wish to use it....or with alternative news the more patrons will pay to support it.

So essentially we are back to the tabloid issue but digitally. So like the tabloids have always done simplistic depictions of reality that come with 'per-digested' thinking are offered that mostly parrot back the views of the viewer to ensure they continue to patronise the product.

News and views becomes more more of a consumer product than before.....You choose your angle, the news outlet feeds it back to you.

When it comes to politics the widening out of information sources means that what is considered 'news' can no longer be contained to a few accepted sources who control the narrative.

So the groups that have always existed no longer have to contend with each other and instead can just talk amongst themselves. The result of this is that they each become bolder versions of themselves each convinced in the correctness of their respective visions.

Of course 'normies' and those amongst the elderly who don't wish to keep up will continue to use the mainstream outlets and parrot the narratives fed to them but for that demographic that's how it always was.....but their numbers reduce with each passing day.

I don't suggest that as a good or bad thing but just as a reality.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Feb 2019 7.46pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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.TUX. 25 Feb 19 9.34pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I am an olde duffer. But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc. I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician. More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts. There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed. I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation. Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected. I think people need to open their minds Maybe it's me getting old. opinions welcomed 1. Agreed. The internet has opened a whole new world of knowledge to those who wish to learn. 2. The internet has opened a whole new world of knowledge to those who wish to learn. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

25 Feb 19 9.34pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I am an olde duffer.
But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc.

There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed.

Maybe it's me getting old.

opinions welcomed

1. Agreed. The internet has opened a whole new world of knowledge to those who wish to learn.
2. The internet has opened a whole new world of knowledge to those who wish to learn.

Buy Litecoin.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 25 Feb 19 9.57pm
the pamphleteers with the dodgy printing presses in the time of Queen Elizabeth the first. the town crier in ancient Pompeii , before the volcano hit. all dodgy, all got paymasters, all dishonest. This news story is as old as time. Murdoch's ancestor was swinging from a tree and saw a panther stalking a relaxed monkey, said nothing, monkey got eaten. Murdoch senior guilty of not telling the truth, blood was spilt. does the OP have a model of fair/balanced/honest media that he can draw upon to enlighten us ? Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 25 Feb 19 9.57pm

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the pamphleteers with the dodgy printing presses in the time of Queen Elizabeth the first.

the town crier in ancient Pompeii , before the volcano hit.

all dodgy, all got paymasters, all dishonest. This news story is as old as time.

Murdoch's ancestor was swinging from a tree and saw a panther stalking a relaxed monkey, said nothing, monkey got eaten. Murdoch senior guilty of not telling the truth, blood was spilt.

does the OP have a model of fair/balanced/honest media that he can draw upon to enlighten us ?

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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W12 25 Feb 19 10.15pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio the pamphleteers with the dodgy printing presses in the time of Queen Elizabeth the first. the town crier in ancient Pompeii , before the volcano hit. all dodgy, all got paymasters, all dishonest. This news story is as old as time. Murdoch's ancestor was swinging from a tree and saw a panther stalking a relaxed monkey, said nothing, monkey got eaten. Murdoch senior guilty of not telling the truth, blood was spilt. does the OP have a model of fair/balanced/honest media that he can draw upon to enlighten us ? How about one where diversity included that of opinion? Also we could do with a lot less opinion and a lot more focus on reporting facts even those facts that might hurt some people’s feelings. We use to trust people to make up their own minds or are people now simply too stupid?
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W12 25 Feb 19 10.15pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the pamphleteers with the dodgy printing presses in the time of Queen Elizabeth the first.

the town crier in ancient Pompeii , before the volcano hit.

all dodgy, all got paymasters, all dishonest. This news story is as old as time.

Murdoch's ancestor was swinging from a tree and saw a panther stalking a relaxed monkey, said nothing, monkey got eaten. Murdoch senior guilty of not telling the truth, blood was spilt.

does the OP have a model of fair/balanced/honest media that he can draw upon to enlighten us ?

How about one where diversity included that of opinion?

Also we could do with a lot less opinion and a lot more focus on reporting facts even those facts that might hurt some people’s feelings.

We use to trust people to make up their own minds or are people now simply too stupid?

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Stirlingsays 25 Feb 19 10.59pm
Originally posted by W12 How about one where diversity included that of opinion? Also we could do with a lot less opinion and a lot more focus on reporting facts even those facts that might hurt some people’s feelings. We use to trust people to make up their own minds or are people now simply too stupid? That's apparently not for the UK it seems. The BBC should at least try to be objective but that battle was lost internally decades ago now. Ages ago I remember reading that one of its top bods wanted to ensure that hirings were looked at for being even politically but that idea was rejected. When it comes to the best solution I don't think there is one. Essentially at the moment the right pay towards a TV corporation that has a left neo liberal bias. The solution is for the right to get its own network and start paying towards that instead. There is plenty of talent on the right in Internet shows. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Feb 19 10.59pm

Originally posted by W12

How about one where diversity included that of opinion?

Also we could do with a lot less opinion and a lot more focus on reporting facts even those facts that might hurt some people’s feelings.

We use to trust people to make up their own minds or are people now simply too stupid?

That's apparently not for the UK it seems.

The BBC should at least try to be objective but that battle was lost internally decades ago now. Ages ago I remember reading that one of its top bods wanted to ensure that hirings were looked at for being even politically but that idea was rejected.

When it comes to the best solution I don't think there is one.

Essentially at the moment the right pay towards a TV corporation that has a left neo liberal bias.

The solution is for the right to get its own network and start paying towards that instead. There is plenty of talent on the right in Internet shows.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Bert the Head Epsom 25 Feb 19 11.06pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I am an olde duffer. But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc. I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician. More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts. There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed. I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation. Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected. I think people need to open their minds Maybe it's me getting old. opinions welcomed Edited by Bert the Head (25 Feb 2019 11.08pm)
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Bert the Head

Epsom 25 Feb 19 11.06pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I am an olde duffer.
But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc.

There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed.

Maybe it's me getting old.

opinions welcomed

Edited by Bert the Head (25 Feb 2019 11.08pm)

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Bert the Head Epsom 25 Feb 19 11.07pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I am an olde duffer. But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc. I have met many journalists from 'the papers'. Those who used to hang-about in the Red Lion on Whitehall in the 1980's for a little chat to a politician. More recently, local journalists, who were absolutely marvellous in endeavours to get facts. There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed. I think we are all potential victims to 'fake news' and political manipulation. Those who entrench themselves in a particular stance, and resist any amount of information contrary to their opinion, are most affected. I think people need to open their minds Maybe it's me getting old. opinions welcomed I stumbled across a webside called Media Bias/Fact check. [Link] The site says that "Media Bias/Fact Check (MBFC News), founded in 2015, is an independent online media outlet. MBFC News is dedicated to educating the public on media bias and deceptive news practices. MBFC News’ aim is to inspire action and a rejection of overtly biased media. We want to return to an era of straight forward news reporting." It rated the Daily Mail under `Questionable Sources', with the following rating: Overall, we rate Daily Mail Questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor sourcing of information. Detailed Report Reasoning: Right, Propaganda, Conspiracy, Some Fake News The Daily Telegraph: Overall, we rate the The Telegraph Right Biased based on story selection that strongly favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to poor sourcing of information and some failed fact checks. The Daily Express Overall, we rate the Daily Express Right Biased based on editorial content and Mixed for factual reporting due to publishing conspiracies & pseudoscience as well as a few failed fact checks. Only the Financial Times was rated in the Least Bias category with "Factual Reporting: HIGH" The left wing Canary Media scored more highly than either the Daily Mail, The Express or the Telegraph: "Overall, we rate The Canary Left biased based on story selection that typically favors the left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record" News outlets are meant to be a source of information but they have deteriorated into a disinformation system. I read Flat Earth News a few years ago that describes how the media now is spoon fed by press briefings and lacks the will or resources for proper journalism. I find Media Lens (http://www.medialens.org/) a good site. But it is left of centre and has a very dim view of the mainstream media.
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Bert the Head

Epsom 25 Feb 19 11.07pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I am an olde duffer.
But as I get older, the more my eyes are widening. The media we are being fed is (largely) corrupt. Influenced by politics, sponsors, etc.

There is some kind of kudos on social media about where facts are gleaned. And therefore, how opinions are formed.

Maybe it's me getting old.

opinions welcomed

I stumbled across a webside called Media Bias/Fact check. [Link]

The site says that "Media Bias/Fact Check (MBFC News), founded in 2015, is an independent online media outlet. MBFC News is dedicated to educating the public on media bias and deceptive news practices.

MBFC News’ aim is to inspire action and a rejection of overtly biased media. We want to return to an era of straight forward news reporting."

It rated the Daily Mail under `Questionable Sources', with the following rating:

Overall, we rate Daily Mail Questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor sourcing of information.

Detailed Report
Reasoning: Right, Propaganda, Conspiracy, Some Fake News

The Daily Telegraph:

Overall, we rate the The Telegraph Right Biased based on story selection that strongly favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to poor sourcing of information and some failed fact checks.

The Daily Express

Overall, we rate the Daily Express Right Biased based on editorial content and Mixed for factual reporting due to publishing conspiracies & pseudoscience as well as a few failed fact checks.

Only the Financial Times was rated in the Least Bias category with "Factual Reporting: HIGH"

The left wing Canary Media scored more highly than either the Daily Mail, The Express or the Telegraph:
"Overall, we rate The Canary Left biased based on story selection that typically favors the left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record"

News outlets are meant to be a source of information but they have deteriorated into a disinformation system.

I read Flat Earth News a few years ago that describes how the media now is spoon fed by press briefings and lacks the will or resources for proper journalism.

I find Media Lens (http://www.medialens.org/) a good site. But it is left of centre and has a very dim view of the mainstream media.

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