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Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Feb 17 1.15am | |
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Please!
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Hoof Hearted 27 Feb 17 10.24am | |
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Nope.... not a Scooby Doo what you are on about Rudi?
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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 10.28am | |
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I think the Franchise was effectively killed with Gensys. If the Sarah Conner Chronicles are cannon, then John Conner specifically sent Kyle Reese back in time, knowing he was his father. But then if the SCC are correct, Skynet has moved from fighting in the future, to fighting across time, and the whole thing is a high stake game of chess, and sacrifices.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 12.15pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think the Franchise was effectively killed with Gensys. If the Sarah Conner Chronicles are cannon, then John Conner specifically sent Kyle Reese back in time, knowing he was his father. But then if the SCC are correct, Skynet has moved from fighting in the future, to fighting across time, and the whole thing is a high stake game of chess, and sacrifices. You can't scrutinise a ridiculous time travel movie too closely. A paradox almost certainly can't happen in reality.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 12.34pm | |
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Its a shame that most people missed the Sarah Conner Chronicles. The element of time travel becomes quite interesting and complex. Those who travel to the past, and change it, create a new future, but themselves are consistent with the future they experienced. So when his older brother, Derek, who travels to the past in season 1, meets up with Jessie (his girlfriend in the future), who travels back later, his memory of the future is very different of events than hers. Skynet and the Resistance, are conducting operations across time, more geared to influencing the war, rather than avoiding it (although John Conner in the now, won't realise that for some time). The resistance are setting up safe houses, and conducting operations often about denying assets to the machines, whilst Skynet is targeting people of key influence and influence the past (for example pushing new tech in AI to improve its chance of winning in the future) - as well as to ensure the future. Or at least a future. Also, Skynet and John Conner also exist (to some degree) in the past (so have knowledge to influence their own decisions in the future). Plus you get to see that the machines are 'somewhat more complex' than just operating systems. Sadly it got canned rather than get a season 3, because we'd just been introduced to a second machine faction, who are operating in the past, to produce a different AI to Skynet. Who are on neither side, directly.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 12.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You can't scrutinise a ridiculous time travel movie too closely. A paradox almost certainly can't happen in reality. From the first movie, the logical assumption, is that John Conner is aware that Reese is his father, as he gives him the photograph of Sarah. Its then logical that he sends him back knowing a) knowing that he will die b) that its already happened c) that not doing that will create 'an uncertain outcome'. Remember that in T1, in the future, the humans have won. Skynets last gasp is to send a machine back. From Conner's perspective, this makes his actions inevitable, because not sending Reese back means he definitely won't exist, and the humans might not win. Of course the other possibility is that he is just fulfilling a deterministic agenda, and that Reese always travelled back to save Sarah and Father John. So Conner really doesn't have a choice, whether he has free will or not, the only logical decision is to send someone back to protect his mother, and its always Reese (even if he didn't know, if he can send one person back, Reese is the ideal choice - even if Conner doesn't know Reese is his father, he's the only one likely to recognise her, because he carries that picture around). Besides there aren't likely a lot of candidates to go on a suicide mission when the war has just been won, to save a woman, who they don't know and probably have no investment in. So what actually occurs is the machine is creating a paradox, in which it may kill Sarah Conner and create a paradox, and JC is healing that paradox, by preventing it occurring, and in doing so, ensures his own existence in the process. Remember that Reese might not have been JC original father. JC of the future might well have been older or younger, or black even - We just know he exists. The only paradox of Conner is changing who his father may be and when he is born. He was always going to be the saviour of the human race, provided he exists. All that changes is 'who John Conner is' which isn't a paradox of magnitude. Where as his non-existence would be. There is a reason why the initials are J C, and the whole saviour / salvation thing is played up.
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Pikester Worthing 27 Feb 17 12.54pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
From the first movie, the logical assumption, is that John Conner is aware that Reese is his father, as he gives him the photograph of Sarah. Its then logical that he sends him back knowing a) knowing that he will die b) that its already happened c) that not doing that will create 'an uncertain outcome'. Remember that in T1, in the future, the humans have won. Skynets last gasp is to send a machine back. From Conner's perspective, this makes his actions inevitable, because not sending Reese back means he definitely won't exist, and the humans might not win. Of course the other possibility is that he is just fulfilling a deterministic agenda, and that Reese always travelled back to save Sarah and Father John. So Conner really doesn't have a choice, whether he has free will or not, the only logical decision is to send someone back to protect his mother, and its always Reese (even if he didn't know, if he can send one person back, Reese is the ideal choice - even if Conner doesn't know Reese is his father, he's the only one likely to recognise her, because he carries that picture around). Besides there aren't likely a lot of candidates to go on a suicide mission when the war has just been won, to save a woman, who they don't know and probably have no investment in. So what actually occurs is the machine is creating a paradox, in which it may kill Sarah Conner and create a paradox, and JC is healing that paradox, by preventing it occurring, and in doing so, ensures his own existence in the process. Remember that Reese might not have been JC original father. JC of the future might well have been older or younger, or black even - We just know he exists. The only paradox of Conner is changing who his father may be and when he is born. He was always going to be the saviour of the human race, provided he exists. All that changes is 'who John Conner is' which isn't a paradox of magnitude. Where as his non-existence would be. There is a reason why the initials are J C, and the whole saviour / salvation thing is played up. Jamie, Sometimes when you're standing in a pub, resplendent in your Husker Du T-shirt, explaining time travel to a new drinking buddy..... do you ever notice their eyes glaze over and they seem to be just nodding rather than really listening? Just wondering like....
You fed me, you bred me, I'll remember your name. |
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Hoof Hearted 27 Feb 17 1.05pm | |
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Originally posted by Pikester
Jamie, Sometimes when you're standing in a pub, resplendent in your Husker Du T-shirt, explaining time travel to a new drinking buddy..... do you ever notice their eyes glaze over and they seem to be just nodding rather than really listening? Just wondering like....
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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 1.06pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
From the first movie, the logical assumption, is that John Conner is aware that Reese is his father, as he gives him the photograph of Sarah. Its then logical that he sends him back knowing a) knowing that he will die b) that its already happened c) that not doing that will create 'an uncertain outcome'. Remember that in T1, in the future, the humans have won. Skynets last gasp is to send a machine back. From Conner's perspective, this makes his actions inevitable, because not sending Reese back means he definitely won't exist, and the humans might not win. Of course the other possibility is that he is just fulfilling a deterministic agenda, and that Reese always travelled back to save Sarah and Father John. So Conner really doesn't have a choice, whether he has free will or not, the only logical decision is to send someone back to protect his mother, and its always Reese (even if he didn't know, if he can send one person back, Reese is the ideal choice - even if Conner doesn't know Reese is his father, he's the only one likely to recognise her, because he carries that picture around). Besides there aren't likely a lot of candidates to go on a suicide mission when the war has just been won, to save a woman, who they don't know and probably have no investment in. So what actually occurs is the machine is creating a paradox, in which it may kill Sarah Conner and create a paradox, and JC is healing that paradox, by preventing it occurring, and in doing so, ensures his own existence in the process. Remember that Reese might not have been JC original father. JC of the future might well have been older or younger, or black even - We just know he exists. The only paradox of Conner is changing who his father may be and when he is born. He was always going to be the saviour of the human race, provided he exists. All that changes is 'who John Conner is' which isn't a paradox of magnitude. Where as his non-existence would be. There is a reason why the initials are J C, and the whole saviour / salvation thing is played up. Ha ha. Good one. There is no doubt that the original movie is a wonderful piece of self contained science fiction but the wider issue of paradox does not stand up to scrutiny. If the machines could travel back in time they could have gone back and killed Sarah Conner's mother for example or the human race from day one. It is only conceivable that new parallel timelines can be created by changing past events or you could effectively kill your own parents and then cease to exist thus making your original action impossible. For that reason a paradox just can't happen as imagined in Terminator or a host of other films.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 27 Feb 17 1.07pm | |
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HOLs version of The Big Bang theory !!
Pro USA & Israel |
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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 1.18pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Its a shame that most people missed the Sarah Conner Chronicles. The element of time travel becomes quite interesting and complex. Those who travel to the past, and change it, create a new future, but themselves are consistent with the future they experienced. So when his older brother, Derek, who travels to the past in season 1, meets up with Jessie (his girlfriend in the future), who travels back later, his memory of the future is very different of events than hers. Skynet and the Resistance, are conducting operations across time, more geared to influencing the war, rather than avoiding it (although John Conner in the now, won't realise that for some time). The resistance are setting up safe houses, and conducting operations often about denying assets to the machines, whilst Skynet is targeting people of key influence and influence the past (for example pushing new tech in AI to improve its chance of winning in the future) - as well as to ensure the future. Or at least a future. Also, Skynet and John Conner also exist (to some degree) in the past (so have knowledge to influence their own decisions in the future). Plus you get to see that the machines are 'somewhat more complex' than just operating systems. Sadly it got canned rather than get a season 3, because we'd just been introduced to a second machine faction, who are operating in the past, to produce a different AI to Skynet. Who are on neither side, directly. I thought it was fairly decent. Good cast and well written. A lot of quite good sci fi gets canned. The ratings war is ruthless in the US.
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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 1.19pm | |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
HOLs version of The Big Bang theory !! You're in my spot.
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