People's obsession with the academy

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People's obsession with the academy

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palace99 New Mills 08 Nov 23 4.32pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Sullay KaiKai has nearly 200 football league appearances and is an international for Sierra Leone. Hiram Boateng also pushing 200 professional games across League One and League Two Jason Lokilo is with Hull in the Championship. Rob Street is in league one. Ryan Innis has 100+ football league appearances and now with Forest Green in League Two. There's also Keshi Andersen and Freddie Ladapo who are both Championship forwards - we signed both for our academy, as opposed to developed them from kids. Again to hammer the point, we've had below average academy facilities for nearly all of the last 10 years, so I think it's a poor measuring stick as to what we'll be capable of moving forward. i think the above just shows the gap between the Prem and lower leagues. Other than Keshi and Freddie who we bought from non league i don't think we got a fee for any of the others. Chelsea are making millions from some of their youth players, we are making peanuts. Hopefully as the club and players improve the transfer fees should increase. O'Brien is hopefully the 1st of many 6 or 7 figure fees. I think Phillips is a good all action midfielder, but probably not Prem standard. However, a decent Championship career is a definite possibility. Stockport were very interested in buying Banks this summer and a fee of over £300k was mentioned. I thought that was a fair price, but Palace chose to extend his contract and send him out on loan again (where i think he suffered an ACL). At 22 maybe we should have made the call that he won't make Prem league standards.
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palace99

New Mills 08 Nov 23 4.32pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Sullay KaiKai has nearly 200 football league appearances and is an international for Sierra Leone.

Hiram Boateng also pushing 200 professional games across League One and League Two

Jason Lokilo is with Hull in the Championship.

Rob Street is in league one.

Ryan Innis has 100+ football league appearances and now with Forest Green in League Two.

There's also Keshi Andersen and Freddie Ladapo who are both Championship forwards - we signed both for our academy, as opposed to developed them from kids.

Again to hammer the point, we've had below average academy facilities for nearly all of the last 10 years, so I think it's a poor measuring stick as to what we'll be capable of moving forward.

i think the above just shows the gap between the Prem and lower leagues. Other than Keshi and Freddie who we bought from non league i don't think we got a fee for any of the others.

Chelsea are making millions from some of their youth players, we are making peanuts.

Hopefully as the club and players improve the transfer fees should increase. O'Brien is hopefully the 1st of many 6 or 7 figure fees.
I think Phillips is a good all action midfielder, but probably not Prem standard. However, a decent Championship career is a definite possibility.

Stockport were very interested in buying Banks this summer and a fee of over £300k was mentioned. I thought that was a fair price, but Palace chose to extend his contract and send him out on loan again (where i think he suffered an ACL). At 22 maybe we should have made the call that he won't make Prem league standards.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 09 Nov 23 8.55am
O'Brien supposedly went for one million to Lyon Seven figures yes but we would not have made much of a profit afet whatever we spent on him. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 09 Nov 23 8.55am

O'Brien supposedly went for one million to Lyon

Seven figures yes but we would not have made much of a profit afet whatever we spent on him.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Badger11 Beckenham 09 Nov 23 9.42am
Originally posted by HKOwen O'Brien supposedly went for one million to Lyon Seven figures yes but we would not have made much of a profit afet whatever we spent on him. I have the suspicion that this was to placate Textor. He gave an interview moaning that he wasn't listened to and by implication that of his multi club ownership wasn't being allowed to prosper. Some of us wondered why O'Brien wasn't offered a new contract and a chance to fight for a place at Palace. I just have the feeling that Parish agreed to this odd deal to shut Textor up and allow him to go back to his investors with a "win" for the multi club strategy. No proof just a feeling. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 09 Nov 23 9.42am

Originally posted by HKOwen

O'Brien supposedly went for one million to Lyon

Seven figures yes but we would not have made much of a profit afet whatever we spent on him.

I have the suspicion that this was to placate Textor.

He gave an interview moaning that he wasn't listened to and by implication that of his multi club ownership wasn't being allowed to prosper.

Some of us wondered why O'Brien wasn't offered a new contract and a chance to fight for a place at Palace.

I just have the feeling that Parish agreed to this odd deal to shut Textor up and allow him to go back to his investors with a "win" for the multi club strategy.

No proof just a feeling.

One more point

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palace99 New Mills 09 Nov 23 10.51am
Originally posted by martin2412 Do these young kids who are playing in the cages around London even consider the facilities at a professional club ? I doubt it very much. If they're offered a trial at Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs or Palace (cat A or not), I'm sure we would be last on their list, purely down to status, history and perception of the clubs. All of these kids think that they're the next big thing, so they'd rather be a star for Arsenal than Palace. We just might get some cast-offs when reality hits home that they're not as good as they thought they were, and are released from their preferred club. I disagree. I think getting Cat A status was important so we can show parents our facilities are on a par with other clubs. Also there is a restriction on travel for young kids (think it's 90 minutes) so getting a club in South London if you are based in South London will reduce travel time. Then there is the opportunity of 1st team football. Palace need to show there is a pathway, something that will appeal to parents. Palace and Allison used this when we were in the 3rd division in the 70s to build the team of the 80s (remember them!). Finally, looking at the 6 part documentary on channel 4 some of the parents' behaviour was shocking. I think Palace are engaging more with parents and allowing them more access to training etc to differentiate our offering from other clubs. I suspect other clubs won't let parents thought the door whilst training is taking place. If a parent of a child based in say Croydon is prepared to let them go to say Arsenal and travel across London twice a week then i suspect that's the parent not putting their child's interests first. The Palace offering should surely tick many boxes and should appeal to most 'sensible' parents
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palace99

New Mills 09 Nov 23 10.51am

Originally posted by martin2412

Do these young kids who are playing in the cages around London even consider the facilities at a professional club ? I doubt it very much.

If they're offered a trial at Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs or Palace (cat A or not), I'm sure we would be last on their list, purely down to status, history and perception of the clubs.

All of these kids think that they're the next big thing, so they'd rather be a star for Arsenal than Palace. We just might get some cast-offs when reality hits home that they're not as good as they thought they were, and are released from their preferred club.

I disagree. I think getting Cat A status was important so we can show parents our facilities are on a par with other clubs.
Also there is a restriction on travel for young kids (think it's 90 minutes) so getting a club in South London if you are based in South London will reduce travel time.
Then there is the opportunity of 1st team football. Palace need to show there is a pathway, something that will appeal to parents. Palace and Allison used this when we were in the 3rd division in the 70s to build the team of the 80s (remember them!).

Finally, looking at the 6 part documentary on channel 4 some of the parents' behaviour was shocking. I think Palace are engaging more with parents and allowing them more access to training etc to differentiate our offering from other clubs. I suspect other clubs won't let parents thought the door whilst training is taking place.

If a parent of a child based in say Croydon is prepared to let them go to say Arsenal and travel across London twice a week then i suspect that's the parent not putting their child's interests first. The Palace offering should surely tick many boxes and should appeal to most 'sensible' parents

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Putitout Oxford 09 Nov 23 11.57am
Originally posted by HKOwen O'Brien supposedly went for one million to Lyon Seven figures yes but we would not have made much of a profit afet whatever we spent on him. Considering O’Brian was one that was developing nicely, it was a bit odd to let him go for£1 mill. If you consider we are supposed to have laid that out each on Plange, and Obie. Maybe he wouldn’t extend his contract, it’s possible because there had been a lot of interest in him and his agent knew it only to well. In general fees have been paid out on quiet a few of our youngsters. Banks was the subject of an offer , some said £500,000, we lashed out not far off that to get him down here as far as what was reported at the time. The thing is if we are bringing them in for substantial fees they must reach Championship level if there is to be any real money made from them, £1 mill tends to be an absolute max for divisions 1&2 rarely happens, and let’s face it that’s were the majority of interest is for our younger players. Where a six figure ,or even seven figure , fee has been paid to get a lad, we need to get them into the Championship on loan to build a reputation, and then if they just don’t come through for us ,there might be a profit in them.
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Putitout

Oxford 09 Nov 23 11.57am

Originally posted by HKOwen

O'Brien supposedly went for one million to Lyon

Seven figures yes but we would not have made much of a profit afet whatever we spent on him.

Considering O’Brian was one that was developing nicely, it was a bit odd to let him go for£1 mill. If you consider we are supposed to have laid that out each on Plange, and Obie.
Maybe he wouldn’t extend his contract, it’s possible because there had been a lot of interest in him and his agent knew it only to well. In general fees have been paid out on quiet a few of our youngsters. Banks was the subject of an offer , some said £500,000, we lashed out not far off that to get him down here as far as what was reported at the time. The thing is if we are bringing them in for substantial fees they must reach Championship level if there is to be any real money made from them, £1 mill tends to be an absolute max for divisions 1&2 rarely happens, and let’s face it that’s were the majority of interest is for our younger players.
Where a six figure ,or even seven figure , fee has been paid to get a lad, we need to get them into the Championship on loan to build a reputation, and then if they just don’t come through for us ,there might be a profit in them.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 09 Nov 23 12.07pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I have the suspicion that this was to placate Textor. He gave an interview moaning that he wasn't listened to and by implication that of his multi club ownership wasn't being allowed to prosper. Some of us wondered why O'Brien wasn't offered a new contract and a chance to fight for a place at Palace. I just have the feeling that Parish agreed to this odd deal to shut Textor up and allow him to go back to his investors with a "win" for the multi club strategy. No proof just a feeling. No doubt Textor was relevant to the deal, but I'd imagine O'Brien also had a big say - after a very successful season playing elsewhere in Europe, a massive European club like Lyon must have sounded very attractive to him. I'd imagine it's more likely we did offer him an extension, but with no guarantees on playing time and Guehi and Anderson in front of him, he didn't see a path to the first team. He's started the last 4 in a row for Lyon and had decent reports, despite the team having a horrendous season - I don't expect he'd have made 4 starts all season for us, so his decision is looking a decent one. Expect he'll get an Ireland call up soon - he was well thought of at U21 level and now playing regular club football at a good level. I read we have a sell-on clause for any future transfers, so hopefully he makes a success of it!
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 09 Nov 23 12.07pm

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Originally posted by Badger11

I have the suspicion that this was to placate Textor.

He gave an interview moaning that he wasn't listened to and by implication that of his multi club ownership wasn't being allowed to prosper.

Some of us wondered why O'Brien wasn't offered a new contract and a chance to fight for a place at Palace.

I just have the feeling that Parish agreed to this odd deal to shut Textor up and allow him to go back to his investors with a "win" for the multi club strategy.

No proof just a feeling.

No doubt Textor was relevant to the deal, but I'd imagine O'Brien also had a big say - after a very successful season playing elsewhere in Europe, a massive European club like Lyon must have sounded very attractive to him.

I'd imagine it's more likely we did offer him an extension, but with no guarantees on playing time and Guehi and Anderson in front of him, he didn't see a path to the first team.

He's started the last 4 in a row for Lyon and had decent reports, despite the team having a horrendous season - I don't expect he'd have made 4 starts all season for us, so his decision is looking a decent one.

Expect he'll get an Ireland call up soon - he was well thought of at U21 level and now playing regular club football at a good level.

I read we have a sell-on clause for any future transfers, so hopefully he makes a success of it!

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Midlands Eagle 09 Nov 23 1.56pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Some of us wondered why O'Brien wasn't offered a new contract and a chance to fight for a place at Palace. I just have the feeling that Parish agreed to this odd deal to shut Textor up and allow him to go back to his investors with a "win" for the multi club strategy. No proof just a feeling. I'm sure that I remember reading that he refused to sign a new contract
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Midlands Eagle

09 Nov 23 1.56pm

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Originally posted by Badger11

Some of us wondered why O'Brien wasn't offered a new contract and a chance to fight for a place at Palace.

I just have the feeling that Parish agreed to this odd deal to shut Textor up and allow him to go back to his investors with a "win" for the multi club strategy.

No proof just a feeling.

I'm sure that I remember reading that he refused to sign a new contract

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