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Origins of life
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 acolcpfc  Littlehampton, West Sussex 07 Jan 21 9.51pm |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
1) How do you know that the universe is not necessary? Because it began to exist, which means it didn’t have to exist, which means it’s not necessary. 2) The "Big Bang" has as much probability as "God" - I believe in the Big Bang, I also believe God is the one who banged it 3) The creation of the universe may be neither of the above. You seem to apply reason for an outcome. That is purely physics. All physics does is explain outcomes of known actions. There are several 'Random' theories. Have a look at some. You seem interested. Luck is also involved in a lot of evolutionary processes, which again is random. God is not necessarily the only answer.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jan 21 3.14pm |
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Originally posted by acolcpfc
My idea of God is: Creator What points did I give in the other post that are inconsistent or wrong? What is a better explanation- a space less, timeless, immaterial, intelligent being created the universe, or nothing created the universe? I obviously do not know the answer, I just arrive at my personal conclusion from weighing up the evidence in front of me. I appreciate people interpret data and arrive at different conclusions. Also, the laws of nature break down at the Big Bang, so even the atheists starting point is supernatural. You are mistaking complexity and a lack of understanding of it with intelligent design. Nature might well have its own 'intelligence' but that might just be a form of binary selection just like all forms ultimately are. We know they are certain laws that govern physics, but we have barely scraped the surface of the quantum world. I'd consign 'God' to the room marked old things we no longer worship, along with idols, The Sun, animals, royalty, mountains and amusement park grabbers.
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 13 Jan 21 7.32pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are mistaking complexity and a lack of understanding of it with intelligent design. Nature might well have its own 'intelligence' but that might just be a form of binary selection just like all forms ultimately are. We know they are certain laws that govern physics, but we have barely scraped the surface of the quantum world. I'd consign 'God' to the room marked old things we no longer worship, along with idols, The Sun, animals, royalty, mountains and amusement park grabbers. the point made that it all breaks down at the big bang so atheists actually have to make a supernatural leap of faith to believe that some ultimate scientific law/s preceded the universe (where were they?) is spot on. we grow up offered a false dichotemny - it's either people with mad staring eyes who have conversations with Jesus or bleak atheists who have trouble accepting that mystery is at the bottom of each area of science not some bottom line facts or set of principles. You can have an impersonal god - just an acceptance that there is a power beyond our comprehension, no ghosts in the sky. There is a sect in the C of E called the Sea of Faith - they are atheist Christians! they believe in the morality but not the supernatural side, arguing that to be religious is essentially about believing that life is sacred and not about believing in a personal (rather than transcendent) God. And as for intelligent design: contact mechanics, random collisions and emergence from chaos can take you so far, but are inadequate to explain the form living things have evolved to take. Nobody knows how stem cells differentiate for example, our understanding of molecular biology can explain identical doubling, but not differentiation, whatever causes that is external to the cell! the meaning of life, the universe and everything is not 42.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jan 21 10.13am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
the point made that it all breaks down at the big bang so atheists actually have to make a supernatural leap of faith to believe that some ultimate scientific law/s preceded the universe (where were they?) is spot on. we grow up offered a false dichotemny - it's either people with mad staring eyes who have conversations with Jesus or bleak atheists who have trouble accepting that mystery is at the bottom of each area of science not some bottom line facts or set of principles. You can have an impersonal god - just an acceptance that there is a power beyond our comprehension, no ghosts in the sky. There is a sect in the C of E called the Sea of Faith - they are atheist Christians! they believe in the morality but not the supernatural side, arguing that to be religious is essentially about believing that life is sacred and not about believing in a personal (rather than transcendent) God. And as for intelligent design: contact mechanics, random collisions and emergence from chaos can take you so far, but are inadequate to explain the form living things have evolved to take. Nobody knows how stem cells differentiate for example, our understanding of molecular biology can explain identical doubling, but not differentiation, whatever causes that is external to the cell! the meaning of life, the universe and everything is not 42. Christianity is just a bunch of people who believe stuff based on superstition and fairy stories. Religion has no relation to the physical because what people believe has no bearing on what is real. I'm a Dawkins man and will remain so until someone provides proper evidence to the contrary. You cannot just reach for imaginative explanations because you do not understand something. That is how we arrived at religion, and that made people believe in all kinds of stupid crap, and many still do. Fortunately, the enlightened now have science to try and figure things out. Science hasn't failed because there are still things we don't understand.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jan 21 11.04am |
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The purpose of life is gene survival. The purpose of the universe isn't yet knowable, if it ever will be. That said, we do appear to be inching our ways forward with clues to other dimensions and other areas. Einstein, in my view, sorted out what gravity is....as in spacetime geometry....though no doubt it only touched the basic mathematical surface. Also, our understanding of the quantum is amazing and has truly revolutionized the world....while also adding another threat to its destruction. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jan 2021 11.05am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 14 Jan 21 11.42am |
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I am intrigued with questions like was there always something, or how can there be nothing, what was the first something, how did the universe form, but not the why. I’ll just hear the answers if they ever get them. Never then. I agree with Hrolf that everything comes from a chance sequence of events, just like our own lives. The idea that there is a creator and a creator doing things for a reason is mad, but that’s their personal choice and tribal system or more than likely what’s been passed down. Who created God for God’s sake? Lol. A God who created a swamp of cells that over millions of years eventually created creatures that kill each other to survive, which makes vegans a bit odd as well.
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