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Adrian Chiles - Grip of Alcohol

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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Aug 18 9.09am
Originally posted by Matov Watched this last night. And as somebody who has not had a drink in over 6 years, it invoked mixed emotions given how much of my previous behaviour I saw being played out on the screen with how much Chiles seemed to mirror my own experiences and attitudes along with the platitude of excuses to attempt to justify it horrifying me. It also saddened/made me shout at the telly to see that ludicrous group, that claim to help to want people to stop or moderate their drinking, meeting in a pub. Of all the stupid notions I have seen around sobriety then the idea that you can knock the booze on the head by meeting up in a boozer is right up there at the very top of the moron tree. All I wanted to do was shake him by the throat and telling him to knock it on the head. And I suspect that is what he craved somebody to do for him but I have to stress that is very much my take on it. My own view on alcoholism is that is not a disease but more a condition that you are born with. Effectively an adverse reaction to alcohol which causes you to crave more once you have imbibed. There are clearly other issues involved but I suspect that is more about a general human malaise, and not confined to people who get ‘the taste’ once they are on the back of a couple of cheeky ones after work. And that it is against this metabolic reaction that people should judge their behaviour, rather than assuming that just because you made it home to your own bed and have no intention of pouring a bottle of cooking vodka over your cornflakes that you don’t have a problem. My own experience was that I never actually enjoyed one or two drinks. Made me feel even more ratty than I was already. If I was in a situation in which I had to limit my intake for a variety of reasons then I would not bother. Seemed pointless to me and still does. So I was a binge drinker and would, if I could, do it daily but with all the provisos that others claim means they are not alcoholics. Then one morning, laying on the sofa with a hangover that would have killed a horse, and having to let people I loved down again (nothing dramatic but I had promised to take the kids swimming and simply could not function enough to do so) something snapped. Had a couple of drinks that evening, just to sort my head out, then the following day took myself off and spoke to some kindly people who seemed pleased to see me and told me a simple truth. I only needed to give up one single drink a day. The first one. Don’t pick that up and you are on the right path. Now in and of itself, that does very little to deal with the rest of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that life throws at us but when you can wake up without a hangover, you are in with a chance although things do not get better overnight. The best definition of a chronic alcoholic I ever heard was that it was a person whose life got worse once they stopped drinking and that really hit home because once I put the bottle down, the s* really did hit the fan for me in a variety of ways but I am out the other side now, and pleased for it. Also, much like that boring ex-smoker, I know I can come across as OTT about the booze now and the reality is that once you do give up, then the dynamics of all areas of your life change and I cannot pretend that it is easy. It is not. But I am also convinced of two things. The first is this. If you think you have a problem with the booze then you probably do. The second is that there are no half-ways measures on this. No controlled drinking or self-imposed limits. You might get away with it for a while but it is a devious b**** and this idea of being in its ‘grip’ is a perfect one. You either drink or you do not. As binary, and bloody awful to face up to as that. Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2018 8.59am) Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2018 8.59am) Excellent post you make a lot of sense. I especially agree with your comments about cutting down. All my friends told me that I should just drink less. Some people maybe able to do that but I know myself I would cut down for a while and then it would gradually increase. For me the only solution has been to give it up entirely. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 29 Aug 18 9.09am

Originally posted by Matov

Watched this last night.

And as somebody who has not had a drink in over 6 years, it invoked mixed emotions given how much of my previous behaviour I saw being played out on the screen with how much Chiles seemed to mirror my own experiences and attitudes along with the platitude of excuses to attempt to justify it horrifying me.

It also saddened/made me shout at the telly to see that ludicrous group, that claim to help to want people to stop or moderate their drinking, meeting in a pub. Of all the stupid notions I have seen around sobriety then the idea that you can knock the booze on the head by meeting up in a boozer is right up there at the very top of the moron tree.

All I wanted to do was shake him by the throat and telling him to knock it on the head. And I suspect that is what he craved somebody to do for him but I have to stress that is very much my take on it.

My own view on alcoholism is that is not a disease but more a condition that you are born with. Effectively an adverse reaction to alcohol which causes you to crave more once you have imbibed. There are clearly other issues involved but I suspect that is more about a general human malaise, and not confined to people who get ‘the taste’ once they are on the back of a couple of cheeky ones after work.

And that it is against this metabolic reaction that people should judge their behaviour, rather than assuming that just because you made it home to your own bed and have no intention of pouring a bottle of cooking vodka over your cornflakes that you don’t have a problem.

My own experience was that I never actually enjoyed one or two drinks. Made me feel even more ratty than I was already. If I was in a situation in which I had to limit my intake for a variety of reasons then I would not bother. Seemed pointless to me and still does. So I was a binge drinker and would, if I could, do it daily but with all the provisos that others claim means they are not alcoholics.

Then one morning, laying on the sofa with a hangover that would have killed a horse, and having to let people I loved down again (nothing dramatic but I had promised to take the kids swimming and simply could not function enough to do so) something snapped. Had a couple of drinks that evening, just to sort my head out, then the following day took myself off and spoke to some kindly people who seemed pleased to see me and told me a simple truth. I only needed to give up one single drink a day. The first one. Don’t pick that up and you are on the right path.

Now in and of itself, that does very little to deal with the rest of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that life throws at us but when you can wake up without a hangover, you are in with a chance although things do not get better overnight. The best definition of a chronic alcoholic I ever heard was that it was a person whose life got worse once they stopped drinking and that really hit home because once I put the bottle down, the s*** really did hit the fan for me in a variety of ways but I am out the other side now, and pleased for it.

Also, much like that boring ex-smoker, I know I can come across as OTT about the booze now and the reality is that once you do give up, then the dynamics of all areas of your life change and I cannot pretend that it is easy. It is not. But I am also convinced of two things.

The first is this. If you think you have a problem with the booze then you probably do.

The second is that there are no half-ways measures on this. No controlled drinking or self-imposed limits. You might get away with it for a while but it is a devious b****** and this idea of being in its ‘grip’ is a perfect one. You either drink or you do not. As binary, and bloody awful to face up to as that.

Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2018 8.59am)

Excellent post you make a lot of sense. I especially agree with your comments about cutting down. All my friends told me that I should just drink less. Some people maybe able to do that but I know myself I would cut down for a while and then it would gradually increase. For me the only solution has been to give it up entirely.

One more point

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premier fan BR4 29 Aug 18 2.34pm
Originally posted by Matov Watched this last night. And as somebody who has not had a drink in over 6 years, it invoked mixed emotions given how much of my previous behaviour I saw being played out on the screen with how much Chiles seemed to mirror my own experiences and attitudes along with the platitude of excuses to attempt to justify it horrifying me. It also saddened/made me shout at the telly to see that ludicrous group, that claim to help to want people to stop or moderate their drinking, meeting in a pub. Of all the stupid notions I have seen around sobriety then the idea that you can knock the booze on the head by meeting up in a boozer is right up there at the very top of the moron tree. All I wanted to do was shake him by the throat and telling him to knock it on the head. And I suspect that is what he craved somebody to do for him but I have to stress that is very much my take on it. My own view on alcoholism is that is not a disease but more a condition that you are born with. Effectively an adverse reaction to alcohol which causes you to crave more once you have imbibed. There are clearly other issues involved but I suspect that is more about a general human malaise, and not confined to people who get ‘the taste’ once they are on the back of a couple of cheeky ones after work. And that it is against this metabolic reaction that people should judge their behaviour, rather than assuming that just because you made it home to your own bed and have no intention of pouring a bottle of cooking vodka over your cornflakes that you don’t have a problem. My own experience was that I never actually enjoyed one or two drinks. Made me feel even more ratty than I was already. If I was in a situation in which I had to limit my intake for a variety of reasons then I would not bother. Seemed pointless to me and still does. So I was a binge drinker and would, if I could, do it daily but with all the provisos that others claim means they are not alcoholics. Then one morning, laying on the sofa with a hangover that would have killed a horse, and having to let people I loved down again (nothing dramatic but I had promised to take the kids swimming and simply could not function enough to do so) something snapped. Had a couple of drinks that evening, just to sort my head out, then the following day took myself off and spoke to some kindly people who seemed pleased to see me and told me a simple truth. I only needed to give up one single drink a day. The first one. Don’t pick that up and you are on the right path. Now in and of itself, that does very little to deal with the rest of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that life throws at us but when you can wake up without a hangover, you are in with a chance although things do not get better overnight. The best definition of a chronic alcoholic I ever heard was that it was a person whose life got worse once they stopped drinking and that really hit home because once I put the bottle down, the s* really did hit the fan for me in a variety of ways but I am out the other side now, and pleased for it. Also, much like that boring ex-smoker, I know I can come across as OTT about the booze now and the reality is that once you do give up, then the dynamics of all areas of your life change and I cannot pretend that it is easy. It is not. But I am also convinced of two things. The first is this. If you think you have a problem with the booze then you probably do. The second is that there are no half-ways measures on this. No controlled drinking or self-imposed limits. You might get away with it for a while but it is a devious b**** and this idea of being in its ‘grip’ is a perfect one. You either drink or you do not. As binary, and bloody awful to face up to as that. Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2018 8.59am) Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2018 8.59am) That's a very interesting insight - thanks for sharing. Maybe you could cast comment on my situation. Unlike you previuosly. I like a drink but only 2 cans a night possibly 3 on the odd occasion but after this I really don't want to drink anymore - so I don't have that urge as you put it to carry on drinking. Which I suppose is a good thing. However, I do have the urge every night at dinner to have a couple of cans - this on reflection would appear that I have an addiction although limited?? This clearly contradicts what you're saying in that I am limiting my intake to some extent. I'd love to share this with others and see what people think. I know it means I'm drinking 30 units a week so I'm guessing I need to do something and reduce this but I do carve at least 1 or 2 beers every night! Edited by premier fan (29 Aug 2018 2.38pm) Edited by premier fan (29 Aug 2018 2.39pm)
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premier fan

BR4 29 Aug 18 2.34pm

Originally posted by Matov

Watched this last night.

The first is this. If you think you have a problem with the booze then you probably do.

Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2018 8.59am)

That's a very interesting insight - thanks for sharing.

Maybe you could cast comment on my situation.

Unlike you previuosly. I like a drink but only 2 cans a night possibly 3 on the odd occasion but after this I really don't want to drink anymore - so I don't have that urge as you put it to carry on drinking. Which I suppose is a good thing.

However, I do have the urge every night at dinner to have a couple of cans - this on reflection would appear that I have an addiction although limited?? This clearly contradicts what you're saying in that I am limiting my intake to some extent.

I'd love to share this with others and see what people think. I know it means I'm drinking 30 units a week so I'm guessing I need to do something and reduce this but I do carve at least 1 or 2 beers every night!

Edited by premier fan (29 Aug 2018 2.38pm)

Edited by premier fan (29 Aug 2018 2.39pm)

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Matov 29 Aug 18 4.43pm
Originally posted by premier fan However, I do have the urge every night at dinner to have a couple of cans - this on reflection would appear that I have an addiction although limited?? This clearly contradicts what you're saying in that I am limiting my intake to some extent. Edited by premier fan (29 Aug 2018 2.39pm) Firstly, only you can decide if you have a problem or not. I really used to struggle myself in that 5-7pm period of the day because that was invariably when I had my first drink of the day but I suspect that was as much about habit as anything else. If I could happily (and that is the crucial part here) limit my own intake to two drinks a night then I would start again tomorrow. A perfectly civilized way to live. Whether it is a good idea to do that 7 days a week, I would not like to comment on but if you can have those two beers/wines/whatever and then get on with the rest of your life then in my opinion, its not an issue. Maybe decide to have Monday to Wednesday as dry days? But for me the crucial difference between somebody on the alcoholism spectrum and somebody not is this idea of 'the taste'. I never really drank in moderation because I never saw the point and I think I only ever bought a single measure of spirits in the pub on a handful of occasions. I was a binge drinker primarily because that was the only form of drinking that made any sense to me. Still does. When I think of drinking again, which I still do, I never envisage sitting down with a single drink but rather embarking on a full blown binge drinking session. Gin to start with, wine to follow then Port/& Irish with a constant beer to hand, just to quench my thirst. And the idea of spending all night just drinking only beer or only wine is also one that I find ludicrous. Bloody boring! But alcoholism is a condition that impacts on everybody differently so the key to it for me would be the question of whether I could, after two drinks, happily then ignore any other booze in the house. If you can, then I see no issue beyond what you are comfortable with. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

29 Aug 18 4.43pm

Originally posted by premier fan

Edited by premier fan (29 Aug 2018 2.39pm)

Firstly, only you can decide if you have a problem or not. I really used to struggle myself in that 5-7pm period of the day because that was invariably when I had my first drink of the day but I suspect that was as much about habit as anything else.

If I could happily (and that is the crucial part here) limit my own intake to two drinks a night then I would start again tomorrow. A perfectly civilized way to live.

Whether it is a good idea to do that 7 days a week, I would not like to comment on but if you can have those two beers/wines/whatever and then get on with the rest of your life then in my opinion, its not an issue. Maybe decide to have Monday to Wednesday as dry days?

But for me the crucial difference between somebody on the alcoholism spectrum and somebody not is this idea of 'the taste'. I never really drank in moderation because I never saw the point and I think I only ever bought a single measure of spirits in the pub on a handful of occasions.

I was a binge drinker primarily because that was the only form of drinking that made any sense to me. Still does. When I think of drinking again, which I still do, I never envisage sitting down with a single drink but rather embarking on a full blown binge drinking session. Gin to start with, wine to follow then Port/& Irish with a constant beer to hand, just to quench my thirst. And the idea of spending all night just drinking only beer or only wine is also one that I find ludicrous. Bloody boring!

But alcoholism is a condition that impacts on everybody differently so the key to it for me would be the question of whether I could, after two drinks, happily then ignore any other booze in the house. If you can, then I see no issue beyond what you are comfortable with.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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cryrst The garden of England 29 Aug 18 5.41pm
I know an acquaintance whom I haven't seen in a while. He used to go out on Friday and Saturday nights and get bladdered. Not top shelf just about 15 pints of strong lager. I asked him why and he said he liked the feeling of being drunk but if there was a pill to give the effect he wouldn't drink again. He didn't drink on the other 5 nights. I am probably in the 30 -40 unit bracket so more than recommended but again a couple a night then I'm ok. I can see how easy it is to get addicted to drink and I think what's at stake is possibly a prevention for many of us from tipping over the edge.
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cryrst

The garden of England 29 Aug 18 5.41pm

I know an acquaintance whom I haven't seen in a while.
He used to go out on Friday and Saturday nights and get bladdered.
Not top shelf just about 15 pints of strong lager.
I asked him why and he said he liked the feeling of being drunk but if there was a pill to give the effect he wouldn't drink again. He didn't drink on the other 5 nights.
I am probably in the 30 -40 unit bracket so more than recommended but again a couple a night then I'm ok.
I can see how easy it is to get addicted to drink and I think what's at stake is possibly a prevention for many of us from tipping over the edge.

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