When we beat Leeds away 1-0 in the fedora cup run back in '76 (my favourite ever Palace result btw) we played 3-4-3 - it's a myth you have to have ten Franz Beckenbauer's and a rush goalie to play 3 defenders, Nigel Pearson took Leicester to Selhurst when we were last in the championship and beat us 2-1 playing a 3 man defence. Mind you some of our football lately reminded me of Allison sides drawing 1-1 at home v the likes of Peterborough, Port Vale or Aldershot in the mid seventies playing the most boring disjointed cr*p football, Stewart Jump as sweeper, as over complicated ideas and wasted possession made painful watching. But when it clicked great things did happen. Whether it's 3 or 4 at the back isn't the question, or shouldn't be, it's whether we can improve our use of possession - we have had more pragmatic managers than visionary ones in recent years - Big Mal, Venables, Bruce, Dowie and I'd say Freedman had some vision, and once upon a time that was our DNA - post Coppell, we've had Warnock, Pulis and Big Sam as the pragmatic types and they've brought most of any success we've had. Holloway fancies himself as a coach with vision as does Pardew - but now we've got someone with genuine ideas on how football should be played and how football intelligence can be increased individually and collectively. I look forward to us playing some creative football - this pragmatism is Palace's ID or DNA is nonsense, it hasn't always been that way, and I'm looking forward to a period under de Boer where we try to win by playing better football than the opposition. But can any one tell me who the THREE Palace defenders were when we beat the great Leeds side at Elland Road?

thanks for that, looks like it's pragmatism time again, good luck Frank, maybe one day we'll meet again in the Europa League.