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Mane red card
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 09 Sep 17 9.20pm |
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Frank as a CB scored an overhead kick in the box for Ajax. Ahead of his time. Hopefully not ahead of our's. It wasn't like Pele in Escape to victory. More of a ball hanging and only way to make use of it was to spoon it behind himself at goal. Wasn't a bicycle kick as it was kicking foot from floor straight to ball without other foot leading. Great skill though. Edited by Rudi Hedman (09 Sep 2017 9.26pm)
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| Direwolf Lincoln 09 Sep 17 9.41pm |
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Originally posted by TheExpatEagle
Should Mane have been sent off today? Maybe, maybe not. His foot was chest high, the keeper's head was below shoulder height. Should bicycle kicks/overhead kicks be banned in that case? Should a foot over waist height be a foul? Is it only if a player is stupid/brave enough to put his head in the way? Take a look at this Benteke bicycle kick for Liverpool v Manchester United. Had the Man U defender not have bottled it he'd have lost his head yet the goal counted. So, should this type of goal be banned?
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| teedee Croydon 09 Sep 17 10.24pm |
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Shame Moss missed so many fouls on Zaha when we played Huddersfield
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Sep 17 11.21pm |
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Originally posted by TheExpatEagle
Pick a bicycle lick or overhead kick and both feet are of the ground. Mane didn't lunge he went for a chest high ball, the keeper put his head down to get it. So, no over waist high kicking and no below the shoulder heading. Wait, how do we enforce this for different height players? Mane DID lunge in - Both feet of the ground, foot high in order to make contact with the ball.And he knew there was an on-rushing keeper so totally reckless. My goodness if that was our keeper and a player made a similar contact our supporters would be incensed if a red card was not brandished with cries that the referee had "Bottled it". You can just imagine the vitriol on HOL if this had happened ! I have had the opportunity to speak to some people (Not Palace supporters) and a couple of non-league referees (Good standard) and they all agree that it was a 'Red'. Edited by Willo (09 Sep 2017 11.22pm)
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| Bearcage Welling 09 Sep 17 11.25pm |
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Reckless and dangerous,
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 Pure Palace Worthing 10 Sep 17 10.15am |
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I have seen pictures of injured goalkeeper with stitches and plasters on one side of his face, then the other ... no doubt he was hurt, but what was that all about?
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| moylerg Cofton Hackett, Worcestershire 10 Sep 17 10.42am |
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Originally posted by Pure Palace
I have seen pictures of injured goalkeeper with stitches and plasters on one side of his face, then the other ... no doubt he was hurt, but what was that all about? Shaving injury?
Most certainly not European. |
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TheExpatEagle  10 Sep 17 11.54am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Mane DID lunge in - Both feet of the ground, foot high in order to make contact with the ball.And he knew there was an on-rushing keeper so totally reckless. My goodness if that was our keeper and a player made a similar contact our supporters would be incensed if a red card was not brandished with cries that the referee had "Bottled it". You can just imagine the vitriol on HOL if this had happened ! I have had the opportunity to speak to some people (Not Palace supporters) and a couple of non-league referees (Good standard) and they all agree that it was a 'Red'. Edited by Willo (09 Sep 2017 11.22pm) Yes, Mane jumped to win the ball. Yes both feet were off the ground. The fact he was a goalkeeper makes no difference, it was outside the box so he was an outfield player. No, I would not be incensed if it were our keeper. I'm more even minded than that. But, the keeper had his head below shoulder height. Does that make a difference? Maybe not. Mane had his feet above waist height, so what made this a foul? Was it the contact? The high boot? The fact the keeper didn't pull out? Pick any bicycle kick goal and they are all, without exception, dangerous and would be red card offences if the defenders didn't bottle it. This is a prime example, Benteke's for Liverpool v Man U. [Link] So football needs a conversation about if a high boot, in any circumstance, is a foul or not. If so the introduction of another player's head should not be the deciding factor to it being a foul because it means the defender being brave is what makes or breaks the referee's decision. We then have to decide what is too high. Benteke is taller than Cabaye so one player's head height is safe another is dangerous. Should we say no player should put his head below shoulder height? What is shoulder height? If a player goes to kick a ball at waist height but another player stoops to head the ball is it dangerous play? I am glad I am not a referee because there are too many variables in play so just make it black and white. Any foot above waist height is a foul regardless of proximity of opposing players. The attached screen grab doesn't accurately reflect how the Man U player almost got his head kicked in. Edited by TheExpatEagle (10 Sep 2017 11.57am)
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![CHRISTIAN BENTEKE BICYCLE KICK GOAL VS MANCHESTER UNITED [720p].mp4_20170910_125608.981.jpg](page.php?id=106&attachment=3233147&ext=.jpg "CHRISTIAN BENTEKE BICYCLE KICK GOAL VS MANCHESTER UNITED [720p].mp4_20170910_125608.981.jpg"){kind=small}
Attachment: | Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 10 Sep 17 12.04pm |
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Originally posted by TheExpatEagle
Yes, Mane jumped to win the ball. Yes both feet were off the ground. The fact he was a goalkeeper makes no difference, it was outside the box so he was an outfield player. No, I would not be incensed if it were our keeper. I'm more even minded than that. But, the keeper had his head below shoulder height. Does that make a difference? Maybe not. Mane had his feet above waist height, so what made this a foul? Was it the contact? The high boot? The fact the keeper didn't pull out? Pick any bicycle kick goal and they are all, without exception, dangerous and would be red card offences if the defenders didn't bottle it. This is a prime example, Benteke's for Liverpool v Man U. [Link] So football needs a conversation about if a high boot, in any circumstance, is a foul or not. If so the introduction of another player's head should not be the deciding factor to it being a foul because it means the defender being brave is what makes or breaks the referee's decision. We then have to decide what is too high. Benteke is taller than Cabaye so one player's head height is safe another is dangerous. Should we say no player should put his head below shoulder height? What is shoulder height? If a player goes to kick a ball at waist height but another player stoops to head the ball is it dangerous play? I am glad I am not a referee because there are too many variables in play so just make it black and white. Any foot above waist height is a foul regardless of proximity of opposing players. The attached screen grab doesn't accurately reflect how the Man U player almost got his head kicked in. Edited by TheExpatEagle (10 Sep 2017 11.57am) With respect, I never insinuated that the fact that the injured player was a goalkeeper made any difference at all. I still believe that if one of our players was at the end of the high boot and was NOT red carded there would be a furore with high-ordnance dumped on to the referee amidst cries of "He bottled it" and "Would have been a red if we were one of the top clubs". The incident has certainly divided opinion and made for lively debate !
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Pierre  Purley 10 Sep 17 4.33pm |
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Originally posted by Pure Palace
I have seen pictures of injured goalkeeper with stitches and plasters on one side of his face, then the other ... no doubt he was hurt, but what was that all about? That was a pie injury-crust was a bit to hard!
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| TheExpatEagle 12 Sep 17 3.46pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
With respect, I never insinuated that the fact that the injured player was a goalkeeper made any difference at all. I still believe that if one of our players was at the end of the high boot and was NOT red carded there would be a furore with high-ordnance dumped on to the referee amidst cries of "He bottled it" and "Would have been a red if we were one of the top clubs". The incident has certainly divided opinion and made for lively debate ! I was referring to the wider audience of the debate and most people have the fact he is a goalkeeper in their consciousness when commenting on this. But the debate is an interesting one, now I've had a chance to listen to some podcasts after yesterday's circus. It seems a lot of people are making the same comments as we are and to be fair it is a tough one for referees and so on.
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Ray in Houston  Houston 12 Sep 17 3.48pm |
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Originally posted by TheExpatEagle
Should Mane have been sent off today? Maybe, maybe not. His foot was chest high, the keeper's head was below shoulder height. Should bicycle kicks/overhead kicks be banned in that case? Should a foot over waist height be a foul? Is it only if a player is stupid/brave enough to put his head in the way? Take a look at this Benteke bicycle kick for Liverpool v Manchester United. Had the Man U defender not have bottled it he'd have lost his head yet the goal counted. So, should this type of goal be banned?
As was mentioned by another poster, Jerome had a goal (harshly) chalked off for exactly this a couple of years ago. The real problem, as usual, is consistency in how officials officiate this type of acrobatics. Edited by Ray in Houston (12 Sep 2017 3.48pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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