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A question on the Pulis case etc.

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Booted Eagle Flag Bristol 10 Mar 17 5.45pm Send a Private Message to Booted Eagle Add Booted Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by bexleydave


That's just more speculation based on nothing whatsoever. Pulis put a huge amount into that pre-season preparation, much more that Pardew's little jolly, which suggested he was probably expecting to be here at the start of the season. The only likely reason, that carries any credibility, is a disagreement on the transfer policy, the detail of which, if true, is unknown. What a pity that the board didn't have a similar disagreement with Pardew.

Ironically the transfer of Connor Wickham might of been one factor, which did actually happen under Pardew.

 


“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ”
—United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld

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Terry Vegetables Flag Forest Hill 10 Mar 17 6.17pm Send a Private Message to Terry Vegetables Add Terry Vegetables as a friend

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

like him or not we are still in the Premier League purely down to him.

Still in the premier league at end of season 2013/14. He has no responsibility for us being in the Premier now & by leaving as he did, considerably increased the odds of us not being in the premier league in future, hence are current situation.

 


catford kid, caught up supporting "team of the 80s" in the 70s..
1st actual Match - PALACE 1-1 LEEDS (Sat 13 Nov 1982)

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tonykaos Flag Ealing 10 Mar 17 10.13pm Send a Private Message to tonykaos Add tonykaos as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Thanks to Tonykaos for the link to the judgement. I have now got all the answers I wanted when I started this thread.

The contract required that to get his bonus Pulis had to keep us up, and stay in the job until the 31st August, at which point he would get the £2m (minus tax and NI, that comes to about £950k in his pocket).

He asked for the money early (on the 8th Aug) so he could buy some land for his family, and said he was happy to stay at Palace. Pulis got the money on the 12th and resigned on the 13th. There never was any land deal, and he never intended to stay.

When Palace paid Pulis, he got about £950k, the taxman was given about £1.2m directly by Palace, so Pulis never saw the whole £2m.

The Premier League Arbitrators found in Palaces favour both key areas of dispute (i.e that he broke his contract and lied). The Courts agree with the Arbitrators, and Pulis can't challenge that.

Pulis is liable to pay back the £950k he pocketed, PLUS he has to pay Palace the £1.2m that they paid to the taxman for him, EVEN THOUGH Pulis never got that money! The reason for this is that Palace can't be certain HMRC will refund them in these circumstances. Ouch!

Pulis will have to pay his own teams legal fees of course, and since it was held that he left Palace to join another club he has to pay damages to Palace of agreed amount of £1.5 million, which I guess was the buyout clause in his contract.

In total, Pulis was ordered to pay Palace a sum of £3,776,000 in damages, then find the money for the lawyers fees.

Wow!

What now seems clear as well is that had he just sat still and said nothing he could have collected the money and left Palace two weeks later, although it may be that any club he joined would have had to pay Palace 1.5m for him at that time.

Unbelievable. All that mucking about so that he could get £950k a few weeks early, and now he's in the hole for £3.77m plus all the fees.

HOWEVER....

I wonder whether WBA will pay the £1.5m 'buyout' clause for him? I suppose that depends on whether WBA agreed to that when he took the job there. I have seen other posts on here suggesting that WBA specifically waited until the relevant date where they didn't have to pay Palace if they employed Pulis, but it may have been something Pulis was able to get them to do when he signed on anyway. We'll probably never know.

I also guess that if Pulis had to refund Palace the whole £2m, including the amount Palace gave to HMRC in tax, Pulis would be within his rights to try and claim that back from HMRC, or at least to ask Palace to do so and then give him his £1.2m back. It seems illogical that tax is still payable now that there has been no bonus payment made. So perhaps he'll get that £1.2m back. It reads as if Palace made an offer of that type during the hearing.

So if he gets the £1.2m from HMRC (via CPFC or otherwise) and if WBA agreed to pay the £1.5m, he's still got to pay £1m to Palace, but seeing as that's effectively a refund of the money Palace gave him, he may not be out of pocket very much at all, he would simply have missed out on the money he earned by keeping us up. In fact, if WBA gave him a big signing on fee, or higher basic wages than CPFC, he may even be in the black on the whole thing, though of course we simply don't know those details. It would explain why he seems so calm though.

So, though we know Pulis owes Palace at least £3.77m, we don't know how much of a blow this actually is to him, and probably never will.

What is for sure is that Palace are not out of pocket.

Again, thanks to TonyKaos for the link.


Edited by TheBigToePunt (10 Mar 2017 6.05pm)

I can't take the credits for digging this out, If you're on the FB CPFC forever group, thank Leslie Fuller. He shared the link there.

Good analysis of the document though!

Edited by tonykaos (10 Mar 2017 10.18pm)

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 10 Mar 17 10.59pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Bigtoepunt,

I believe you have a couple of things wrong.

West Brom recruited Pulis in January after leaving us in August. That sounds like they and he were desperate. They could've got him earlier without any repercussions but they didn't because he was out of their league but by January he had to take a job.

CPFC agreed in court to help Pulis try to recover the tax paid to HMRC.

 


COYP

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Qwijibo Flag Bournemouth 10 Mar 17 11.58pm Send a Private Message to Qwijibo Add Qwijibo as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Bigtoepunt,

I believe you have a couple of things wrong.

West Brom recruited Pulis in January after leaving us in August. That sounds like they and he were desperate. They could've got him earlier without any repercussions but they didn't because he was out of their league but by January he had to take a job.

CPFC agreed in court to help Pulis try to recover the tax paid to HMRC.

[Link]

The dates are certainly suspicious, and i suspect Pulis may have been the plan all along. Alan Irvine was a stop gap.

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 11 Mar 17 7.49am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt


I wonder whether WBA will pay the £1.5m 'buyout' clause for him? I suppose that depends on whether WBA agreed to that when he took the job there.

WBA can't be liable for anything as they never had a contract or agreement with Palace as their dealings were with a supposed free agent

 

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kevlee Flag born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 11 Mar 17 11.12am Send a Private Message to kevlee Add kevlee as a friend

here is the link again to the judgment

[Link]


its a good read!

 


Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

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bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 11 Mar 17 11.30am Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by kevlee

here is the link again to the judgment

[Link]

its a good read!


Thank you for re-posting the link. On reflection, it's difficult to conclude anything other than Pulis wishing to leave to join another club, before the start of the season. If not, he would surely have waited until 31 August before leaving. In the event though, he didn't actually join WBA until 1 January which makes the timing of his departure difficult to explain on the known issues.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

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jockstapp Flag london 11 Mar 17 11.42am Send a Private Message to jockstapp Add jockstapp as a friend

Why is all the interest on the date of the HPM heated players meeting and not the content of the meeting.It is alledged that the reason it was heated was that Parish was trying to wriggle out of paying the players their full bonus payment- the same players that had just kept the club in the premier league against all the odds..If this is true it explains why Pulis wanted out and also shows "saviour' Parish in a completely different light

 

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matthau Flag South Croydon 11 Mar 17 11.45am Send a Private Message to matthau Add matthau as a friend

Originally posted by bexleydave


That's just more speculation based on nothing whatsoever. Pulis put a huge amount into that pre-season preparation, much more that Pardew's little jolly, which suggested he was probably expecting to be here at the start of the season. The only likely reason, that carries any credibility, is a disagreement on the transfer policy, the detail of which, if true, is unknown. What a pity that the board didn't have a similar disagreement with Pardew.

That's just EVEN more speculation based on nothing whatsoever....

 

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susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 11 Mar 17 12.16pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by jockstapp

Why is all the interest on the date of the HPM heated players meeting and not the content of the meeting.It is alledged that the reason it was heated was that Parish was trying to wriggle out of paying the players their full bonus payment- the same players that had just kept the club in the premier league against all the odds..If this is true it explains why Pulis wanted out and also shows "saviour' Parish in a completely different light

My my you have been on the sherbets today Havant you!!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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kevlee Flag born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 11 Mar 17 1.43pm Send a Private Message to kevlee Add kevlee as a friend

for me para 20 says it all
On the Tribunal's findings, Mr Pulis secured early payment of his bonus from the Club by deceit in August 2014. The day after he had secured payment of £2 million (net of tax), he dropped the bombshell on the Club that he intended to leave, leaving it, as must have been his intention, in the lurch on the eve of the new season and an important game against Arsenal. When pursued by the Club to recover compensation for his breaches of duty, the excuse that he raised and maintained throughout the proceedings was a false one concerning the timing and effect of the Heated Players' Meeting. By any standards his conduct (prior to and during the litigation) has been shown to be disgraceful."

 


Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

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