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Mr Palaceman 01 Mar 17 1.11am | |
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I was just listening to the HOL radio show and there were many different views on how well Jason Puncheon did in the game against boro. I think he had a good game, although it was about time. What struck me was that Puncheon reminds me of Ambrose. I still think of him, from back in the day when the Holmesdale had nothing more to worry about than the sale of Sean Scannell to Huddersfield. As much as I want him to do well, I hope he will step up, because if he is at his best like Ambrose, he will get us points.... At his best.....
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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slubglurge welling 01 Mar 17 1.04pm | |
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Puncheon is nothing like Ambrose who actually WAS a goalscoring midfielder with a very good rate of 1 in 4. He also scored two of the greatest goals by a Palace player. Punch has not scored one single goal all season and we've carried him a lot of it.
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Mad4palace 01 Mar 17 1.20pm | |
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Ambrose was actually a pretty poor player when he wasn't scoring, he had little influence on most games from what I recall of him. He was sort of a poor mans Beckham; very good on set-pieces, crosses and a bit like a Lampard in his goalscoring from midfield but little else beyond that. Puncheon does a lot more for the team off the ball as well as tries harder to get on the ball. I think I get what you mean in that he's a similar symbolic character for the club and they've scored crucial goals in huge games: Ambrose; Sheff W, Villa cup, Man Utd cup; Puncheon; first year staying up, Spurs home, Norwich home, FA Cup final.
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dynamicdick Dormansland 01 Mar 17 1.23pm | |
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Originally posted by slubglurge
Puncheon is nothing like Ambrose who actually WAS a goalscoring midfielder with a very good rate of 1 in 4. He also scored two of the greatest goals by a Palace player. Punch has not scored one single goal all season and we've carried him a lot of it. A shade more work rate than Ambrose who didn't quite understand the meaning of tracking back!
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Mr Palaceman 01 Mar 17 9.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Mad4palace
Ambrose was actually a pretty poor player when he wasn't scoring, he had little influence on most games from what I recall of him. He was sort of a poor mans Beckham; very good on set-pieces, crosses and a bit like a Lampard in his goalscoring from midfield but little else beyond that. Puncheon does a lot more for the team off the ball as well as tries harder to get on the ball. I think I get what you mean in that he's a similar symbolic character for the club and they've scored crucial goals in huge games: Ambrose; Sheff W, Villa cup, Man Utd cup; Puncheon; first year staying up, Spurs home, Norwich home, FA Cup final. That is what I mean. Ambrose was called a luxury player, in that he was on big money for him to shine in only a few games a season. Punch reminds me of that right now. I did like Ambrose and I was saddened when we sold him but in reality the club went onwards and upwards without him. I think your assessment of him was spot on. Not saying we should get rid of Puncheon though. I still think he has a lot to offer. He just needs to offer it more to silence his critics, if he can.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Mar 17 3.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Mad4palace
Ambrose was actually a pretty poor player when he wasn't scoring, he had little influence on most games from what I recall of him. He was sort of a poor mans Beckham; very good on set-pieces, crosses and a bit like a Lampard in his goalscoring from midfield but little else beyond that. Puncheon does a lot more for the team off the ball as well as tries harder to get on the ball. I think I get what you mean in that he's a similar symbolic character for the club and they've scored crucial goals in huge games: Ambrose; Sheff W, Villa cup, Man Utd cup; Puncheon; first year staying up, Spurs home, Norwich home, FA Cup final. Darren Ambrose sums up everything you need to know about Warnock and how he plays to players strengths and uses other players strengths to cover their inherent weaknesses. Ambrose wasn't a very good midfielder, but he had an excellent first touch, amazing ability from a dead ball and great shot. So we set up to play to his strengths, that notably he hadn't shown in a long time, at a number of clubs. And f**k me did he deliver. And never achieved the same after he left. One trick pony, but f**k me what a trick.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Mar 17 3.46pm | |
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Problem with Puncheon, is that he does a lot, that goes unnoticed, but people probably expect a lot more of him than is fair. Every manager so far has played him, and continue to do so, and the fact is we haven't won a premiership game in which he hasn't played - Which when you consider this is our fourth season is quite scary. Holloway rated him, Pullis rated him, Warnock rated and played him (even though they hated each other), Pardew rated and played him and now Allerdyce the same. I can't help but think there is something of a pattern there.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Mr Palaceman 03 Mar 17 3.59pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Darren Ambrose sums up everything you need to know about Warnock and how he plays to players strengths and uses other players strengths to cover their inherent weaknesses. Ambrose wasn't a very good midfielder, but he had an excellent first touch, amazing ability from a dead ball and great shot. So we set up to play to his strengths, that notably he hadn't shown in a long time, at a number of clubs. And f**k me did he deliver. And never achieved the same after he left. One trick pony, but f**k me what a trick. I think ambrose was quoted as saying that his time at Palace was the time of his carrer. Then we sold him...
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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Mr Palaceman 03 Mar 17 4.00pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Problem with Puncheon, is that he does a lot, that goes unnoticed, but people probably expect a lot more of him than is fair. Every manager so far has played him, and continue to do so, and the fact is we haven't won a premiership game in which he hasn't played - Which when you consider this is our fourth season is quite scary. Holloway rated him, Pullis rated him, Warnock rated and played him (even though they hated each other), Pardew rated and played him and now Allerdyce the same. I can't help but think there is something of a pattern there. I still rate him but I would rate him more if he at least got us 5 goals a season.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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Booted Eagle Bristol 03 Mar 17 7.06pm | |
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Originally posted by Mr Palaceman
I still rate him but I would rate him more if he at least got us 5 goals a season. This in a nutshell. What the team needs is a proper attacking centre midfielder who can get close to Tekkers and help him move forward. Presently the team is offering very little attacking wise through the centre. The only goal that I can remember for sometime through the centre was Cabayes against Watford. Infact I would suggest that we have been pretty impotent in that part of the pitch since we were promoted. In the summer the rumours were we were looking at such players and we might be looking again depending how this season pans out or how the new manager feels. Edited by Booted Eagle (03 Mar 2017 7.07pm)
“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ” |
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Mad4palace 03 Mar 17 7.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Booted Eagle
This in a nutshell. What the team needs is a proper attacking centre midfielder who can get close to Tekkers and help him move forward. Presently the team is offering very little attacking wise through the centre. The only goal that I can remember for sometime through the centre was Cabayes against Watford. Infact I would suggest that we have been pretty impotent in that part of the pitch since we were promoted. In the summer the rumours were we were looking at such players and we might be looking again depending how this season pans out or how the new manager feels. Edited by Booted Eagle (03 Mar 2017 7.07pm) Let's judge his attacking threat on his performances from now until the end of the season. One thing that has blunted our attacking potency from midfield imo is the fact that we had three number 8's in midfield. Now we finally have a number 4 as it were in Milivojevic, against Middlesbrough Punch and Cabaye were confident enough to push up; knowing Luka was covering behind them. People will point to the first half of last season as evidence that McArthur, Punch and Cabaye worked as a midfield 3 but I think a mix of a few things and things to remember about that midfield should be considered: We had Bolasie; most of our threat come from winning the ball in the middle then quickly recycling it out wide. Very little actual goal threat came from the midfield. Confidence has been way down; that system relied on the energy, discipline and confidence between all three to cover for one another. Loss of fitness has been an issue too, I don't think McArthur's yet recovered from that injury against Bournemouth last season, Cabaye can't finish 90 minutes. Allardyce might be capable of getting their fitness up to previous levels but that is an aging midfield without Milivojevic. Cabaye and Puncheon have the attacking intelligence to get into goalscoring opportunities but prior to Milivojevic's arrival the system was wrong for their sorts of games; they didn't know whether to stick or twist and their fitness levels were way below where they should have been.
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