The Tories are w*nkers

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The Tories are w*nkers

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legaleagle 21 Feb 15 12.14pm
At the end of the day, inequality in the UK has risen not decreased and appears to continue to do so,which means the majority suffer rather than benefit from this.So,its interesting how so much of the debate doesn't seem to place introducing policies to really tackle this meaningfully as a high and desirable priority,but focuses instead on those who have not been the beneficiaries of increased inequality. [Link] Edited by legaleagle (21 Feb 2015 12.17pm)
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legaleagle

21 Feb 15 12.14pm

At the end of the day, inequality in the UK has risen not decreased and appears to continue to do so,which means the majority suffer rather than benefit from this.So,its interesting how so much of the debate doesn't seem to place introducing policies to really tackle this meaningfully as a high and desirable priority,but focuses instead on those who have not been the beneficiaries of increased inequality.

[Link]

Edited by legaleagle (21 Feb 2015 12.17pm)

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matt_himself Matataland 21 Feb 15 1.01pm
Quote legaleagle at 21 Feb 2015 12.14pm At the end of the day, inequality in the UK has risen not decreased and appears to continue to do so,which means the majority suffer rather than benefit from this.So,its interesting how so much of the debate doesn't seem to place introducing policies to really tackle this meaningfully as a high and desirable priority,but focuses instead on those who have not been the beneficiaries of increased inequality. [Link] Edited by legaleagle (21 Feb 2015 12.17pm) Due to the Eurozone problems, problems in Russia and the results of the Arab Spring, it has been noticeable that a lot of rich expats have settled in London in recent years. This coupled with London being viewed as a safe country to reside in by wealth Asians and Arabs, I would bet that this factor would have made a difference in the results garnered by he G7 in the report your reference. Britains wealth equality is difficult to measure because of its history of accommodating wealthy immigrants fleeing from conflicts or despotic regimes. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 21 Feb 15 1.01pm

Quote legaleagle at 21 Feb 2015 12.14pm

[Link]

Edited by legaleagle (21 Feb 2015 12.17pm)

Due to the Eurozone problems, problems in Russia and the results of the Arab Spring, it has been noticeable that a lot of rich expats have settled in London in recent years. This coupled with London being viewed as a safe country to reside in by wealth Asians and Arabs, I would bet that this factor would have made a difference in the results garnered by he G7 in the report your reference.

Britains wealth equality is difficult to measure because of its history of accommodating wealthy immigrants fleeing from conflicts or despotic regimes.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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serial thriller The Promised Land 22 Feb 15 3.39pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 20 Feb 2015 3.08pm 1. Hyperbole in Debate: I think you are wrong. The point of debate must always be to uncover the truth. To simplify and exaggerate may have some value when it comes to clarifying one's point. But in this case, it misleads rather than clarifies. Labelling Tories "heartless" and "bloodthirsty" misses the point of why they are doing things you disapprove of, which is an essential point you deliberately miss. It's not even ad hominem, it's name-calling. (See below). 2. On "Austerity" Someone on here - I think it was Moose - once likened HM government to a once rich relative donating the family silver before fixing the leaky roof (or a simile to that effect.) I think this is spot on. I am reading a book about Suez at the moment. What is striking is how Eden and co pursued the illusion of "global influence" at a massive cost to Britain to virtually no worthwhile effect. I think this is true of lefties who think Britain should be funding every last "Good Cause" there is in the world, from giving weapons to Ukraine to defeating global warming to ending human rights abuses in Saudia Arabia. When challenged, the refrain is often "we're the 6th richest country in the world". (Actually we're not, we have the 6th biggest economy, but let's put that to one side.) My point is, if we don't sort out our economy - and the Tories, for all their boasting, have not made a dent in levels of public spending we simply cannot afford - you can have all the good intentions you want, but they won't make a blind bit of difference. I think the "austerity" Britain has experienced isn't worthy of the name and doesn't compare to what will happen - think Greece but worse - if we don't get a handle on our over-indebted, under-educated and under-productive economy in the next few decades. The point of debate isn't to uncover the truth Johnny, because there is no true end point to reach. If there was, Gusset and Matt would've come to some logical conclusion, have kissed and made up and this site would be a lot duller for it. Debate is about attempting to persuade others that your opinion is favorable to another. I'll admit that using the word bloodthirsty is a bit much. But I do consider the Tories heartless, because they seem to be able to ignore and neglect fundamental ethics which I hold sacred. Sure, this is because they abide by a very different mentality to mine, but it is one which tolerates, like I said, death on a fairly large scale. Re austerity, I agree that if the purpose of austerity is to reduce our budget deficit then the levels to which it's been implemented are beyond a joke. That's why I think this story is so fascinating: because it is an almost explicit admission that the austerity we have in this country is far more ideological than it is explicitly economic. No government would ever implement true austerity because it would absolutely cripple society, it would mean absolutely slashing pensions, probably scrapping trident (which many on the left forget would be an austerity measure), getting rid of the NHS and much worse. Your idea of sorting out the economy is an intriguing one. What would a fixed economy look like? Have we/any country with our economic level ever possessed a fixed economy? To my mind Capitalism necessitates an unstable economy, because it needs a tension in worker/owner relationships to function. Edited by serial thriller (22 Feb 2015 3.41pm) If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 22 Feb 15 3.39pm

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Quote Johnny Eagles at 20 Feb 2015 3.08pm

1. Hyperbole in Debate:
I think you are wrong. The point of debate must always be to uncover the truth. To simplify and exaggerate may have some value when it comes to clarifying one's point. But in this case, it misleads rather than clarifies. Labelling Tories "heartless" and "bloodthirsty" misses the point of why they are doing things you disapprove of, which is an essential point you deliberately miss. It's not even ad hominem, it's name-calling. (See below).

2. On "Austerity"
Someone on here - I think it was Moose - once likened HM government to a once rich relative donating the family silver before fixing the leaky roof (or a simile to that effect.) I think this is spot on.

I am reading a book about Suez at the moment. What is striking is how Eden and co pursued the illusion of "global influence" at a massive cost to Britain to virtually no worthwhile effect.

I think this is true of lefties who think Britain should be funding every last "Good Cause" there is in the world, from giving weapons to Ukraine to defeating global warming to ending human rights abuses in Saudia Arabia.

When challenged, the refrain is often "we're the 6th richest country in the world". (Actually we're not, we have the 6th biggest economy, but let's put that to one side.)

My point is, if we don't sort out our economy - and the Tories, for all their boasting, have not made a dent in levels of public spending we simply cannot afford - you can have all the good intentions you want, but they won't make a blind bit of difference.

I think the "austerity" Britain has experienced isn't worthy of the name and doesn't compare to what will happen - think Greece but worse - if we don't get a handle on our over-indebted, under-educated and under-productive economy in the next few decades.

The point of debate isn't to uncover the truth Johnny, because there is no true end point to reach. If there was, Gusset and Matt would've come to some logical conclusion, have kissed and made up and this site would be a lot duller for it. Debate is about attempting to persuade others that your opinion is favorable to another.

I'll admit that using the word bloodthirsty is a bit much. But I do consider the Tories heartless, because they seem to be able to ignore and neglect fundamental ethics which I hold sacred. Sure, this is because they abide by a very different mentality to mine, but it is one which tolerates, like I said, death on a fairly large scale.

Re austerity, I agree that if the purpose of austerity is to reduce our budget deficit then the levels to which it's been implemented are beyond a joke. That's why I think this story is so fascinating: because it is an almost explicit admission that the austerity we have in this country is far more ideological than it is explicitly economic. No government would ever implement true austerity because it would absolutely cripple society, it would mean absolutely slashing pensions, probably scrapping trident (which many on the left forget would be an austerity measure), getting rid of the NHS and much worse.

Your idea of sorting out the economy is an intriguing one. What would a fixed economy look like? Have we/any country with our economic level ever possessed a fixed economy? To my mind Capitalism necessitates an unstable economy, because it needs a tension in worker/owner relationships to function.

Edited by serial thriller (22 Feb 2015 3.41pm)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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