Does religion have a place in modern society?

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Does religion have a place in modern society?

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 8 of 9 < 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Legal Eagle A town where fog lights shine, eve... 17 Mar 05 11.36pm
As an aside, something I was told by a headteacher way back in year 8 - religion in this country is not in any decline. The orthodox Church of England indeed is, if you take church attendance as a measure, but alternative Christian practices and other religions actually indicate that there is no overall decline in the practice of religion. Well, apparently. He didn't give a source It's just a matter of crossing the i's and dotting the t's
Alert a moderator to this post

Legal Eagle

A town where fog lights shine, eve... 17 Mar 05 11.36pm

As an aside, something I was told by a headteacher way back in year 8 - religion in this country is not in any decline. The orthodox Church of England indeed is, if you take church attendance as a measure, but alternative Christian practices and other religions actually indicate that there is no overall decline in the practice of religion.

Well, apparently. He didn't give a source

It's just a matter of crossing the i's and dotting the t's

Alert a moderator to this post

cpfc-rjd Beckenham and the BBS 18 Mar 05 1.56pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 16 Mar 2005 9:26pm I'd say that, given the increasing dis-satisfaction with the material and selfish world we live in, religion has perhaps never been more important. I'm not sure that this thread was intended to be a Christian v muslim debate but the truth is that religion, throughout history, has flourished most strongly amnongst the disadvantaged and disaffected. The more downtrodden people become (or feel they become), the more extreme they're prepared to be, as evidenced by the willingness of so many Palestinians to die for what they believe in. Church of England attendances (the C of E was founded in the reign of Edward VI, not Henry VIII, by the way) are at an all time low because, as Rach has said, it will not publicly stand up for what it believes. Roman Catholicism, too, has seen an increasing number of adherents pay little more than lip service to its central doctrine and beliefs because it continually shies away from the very issues it should be publicly addressing . The countries where Catholicism is at its strongest is in poorer countries, such as in South America, where poverty and exploitation of the many by the few is the norm. In the more 'civilised', Western countries, Christianity in all its forms has had its balls cut off for the simple reason that people don't think they need it. Consumerism is the new religion. There are many who argue that the decline in religion has co-incided with the break up of the traditional family unit. The increasing number of single parent families and the rise in petty crime committed by children from homes where there is no stable parental influence are social phenomena that simply can't be ignored. In the past, strict religious upbringing precluded such behaviour. Marriage was considered sacred and a commitment for life and not something to walk away from simply because one or other of them got p*ssed off with it. One of the main reasons why islam is taking such a hold in this country is because it places great emphasis on the security and stability of the family unit; the academic achievements of students from such backgrounds, I believe, far outstrip (pro rata) those of the indigenous population and the culture of the extended family is also far more deeply ingrained. It doesn't take a genius to work out that a strong, secure, family based society will prevail over one as disjointed, shallow and uncaring as ours has become. Yes but isn't it funny that many of the 'old fashioned values' brigade who go on about the decline of religion, the family and society are the same ones who voted for Thatcher as she destroyed communities and ruthlessly pursued policies which glamorized the consumer society and the money-mad world. There is still the idea floating around that without Religion, one is morally bankrupt. Well, for me the idea that a good man will be in hell for eternity because he doesn’t believe in god, while a pedophile (for example) who believes (and repents) will go to paradise is not exactly morally sound. "Her very Lowness with her head in a sling I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing" NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

cpfc-rjd

Beckenham and the BBS 18 Mar 05 1.56pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 16 Mar 2005 9:26pm

I'd say that, given the increasing dis-satisfaction with the material and selfish world we live in, religion has perhaps never been more important. I'm not sure that this thread was intended to be a Christian v muslim debate but the truth is that religion, throughout history, has flourished most strongly amnongst the disadvantaged and disaffected. The more downtrodden people become (or feel they become), the more extreme they're prepared to be, as evidenced by the willingness of so many Palestinians to die for what they believe in.

Church of England attendances (the C of E was founded in the reign of Edward VI, not Henry VIII, by the way) are at an all time low because, as Rach has said, it will not publicly stand up for what it believes. Roman Catholicism, too, has seen an increasing number of adherents pay little more than lip service to its central doctrine and beliefs because it continually shies away from the very issues it should be publicly addressing . The countries where Catholicism is at its strongest is in poorer countries, such as in South America, where poverty and exploitation of the many by the few is the norm. In the more 'civilised', Western countries, Christianity in all its forms has had its balls cut off for the simple reason that people don't think they need it. Consumerism is the new religion.

There are many who argue that the decline in religion has co-incided with the break up of the traditional family unit. The increasing number of single parent families and the rise in petty crime committed by children from homes where there is no stable parental influence are social phenomena that simply can't be ignored. In the past, strict religious upbringing precluded such behaviour. Marriage was considered sacred and a commitment for life and not something to walk away from simply because one or other of them got p*ssed off with it. One of the main reasons why islam is taking such a hold in this country is because it places great emphasis on the security and stability of the family unit; the academic achievements of students from such backgrounds, I believe, far outstrip (pro rata) those of the indigenous population and the culture of the extended family is also far more deeply ingrained. It doesn't take a genius to work out that a strong, secure, family based society will prevail over one as disjointed, shallow and uncaring as ours has become.

Yes but isn't it funny that many of the 'old fashioned values' brigade who go on about the decline of religion, the family and society are the same ones who voted for Thatcher as she destroyed communities and ruthlessly pursued policies which glamorized the consumer society and the money-mad world.

There is still the idea floating around that without Religion, one is morally bankrupt. Well, for me the idea that a good man will be in hell for eternity because he doesn’t believe in god, while a pedophile (for example) who believes (and repents) will go to paradise is not exactly morally sound.

"Her very Lowness with her head in a sling
I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing"

NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT

[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

tetley Wimbledon 18 Mar 05 3.19pm
today we must all unite in worshipping the great sun god!! let's get tanning! It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee; All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see; All Discord, Harmony, not understood; All partial Evil, universal Good [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

tetley

Wimbledon 18 Mar 05 3.19pm

today we must all unite in worshipping the great sun god!! let's get tanning!

It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing
All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee;
All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see;
All Discord, Harmony, not understood;
All partial Evil, universal Good

[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 18 Mar 05 6.14pm
Quote A_JsShorts at 17 Mar 2005 9:03pm The Pope is another debate altogether, and is honestly a danger to society. Not physically obviously!!! Edited by A_JsShorts (17 Mar 2005 9:04pm) And how did you arrive at that conclusion? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
Alert a moderator to this post

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 18 Mar 05 6.14pm

Quote A_JsShorts at 17 Mar 2005 9:03pm

The Pope is another debate altogether, and is honestly a danger to society. Not physically obviously!!!

Edited by A_JsShorts (17 Mar 2005 9:04pm)

And how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Alert a moderator to this post

A_JsShorts 18 Mar 05 6.55pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 18 Mar 2005 6:14pm Quote A_JsShorts at 17 Mar 2005 9:03pm The Pope is another debate altogether, and is honestly a danger to society. Not physically obviously!!! Edited by A_JsShorts (17 Mar 2005 9:04pm) And how did you arrive at that conclusion? Welcome back Mr Funt Well someone who tells people that condoms do not work and that the HIV virus can be passed through tthem is rather dangerous IMO. Many people look up to the Pope and will believe what he says, I just hope they are intelligent enough not to believe his rubbish. With 1 in 3 people infected in Africa with HIV/AIDS, who do not have but want access to contraception, I think what he is saying is absolutely disgraceful.
Alert a moderator to this post

A_JsShorts 18 Mar 05 6.55pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 18 Mar 2005 6:14pm

Quote A_JsShorts at 17 Mar 2005 9:03pm

The Pope is another debate altogether, and is honestly a danger to society. Not physically obviously!!!

Edited by A_JsShorts (17 Mar 2005 9:04pm)

And how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Welcome back Mr Funt

Well someone who tells people that condoms do not work and that the HIV virus can be passed through tthem is rather dangerous IMO. Many people look up to the Pope and will believe what he says, I just hope they are intelligent enough not to believe his rubbish. With 1 in 3 people infected in Africa with HIV/AIDS, who do not have but want access to contraception, I think what he is saying is absolutely disgraceful.

Alert a moderator to this post

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 18 Mar 05 7.27pm
Quote A_JsShorts at 18 Mar 2005 6:55pm Quote Cucking Funt at 18 Mar 2005 6:14pm Quote A_JsShorts at 17 Mar 2005 9:03pm The Pope is another debate altogether, and is honestly a danger to society. Not physically obviously!!! Edited by A_JsShorts (17 Mar 2005 9:04pm) And how did you arrive at that conclusion? Welcome back Mr Funt Well someone who tells people that condoms do not work and that the HIV virus can be passed through tthem is rather dangerous IMO. Many people look up to the Pope and will believe what he says, I just hope they are intelligent enough not to believe his rubbish. With 1 in 3 people infected in Africa with HIV/AIDS, who do not have but want access to contraception, I think what he is saying is absolutely disgraceful. Thank you for your welcome. The Catholic Church is, I think, very close to altering its position re: birth control. When it was 'banned' (which it wasn't quite as it was frowned upon but left to individual conscience) in 1967, a commision appointed by the then Pope actually advised that barrier methods of contraception could sit comfortably within existing Church teaching. For reasons best known to himself, he chose to ignore that advice, and that position has been maintained by the current Pope. I'm not aware of him saying that condoms actually facilitate the transmission of HIV (I stand to be corrected on that point) but his condemnation (or should that be condomnation) of them is for spiritual reasons rather than anything else and that, of course, is the root of the problem. I'm not sure that the spread of HIV in Africa is anything to do with the Pope; it's more a question of condoms just not being as freely available there as they are in the 'civilised' world. His comments, if they're true, are certainly irresponsible as they are not founded in fact but I don't think the Pope can be condemned out of hand for reminding the church's members what their obligations are - no blobs is part of the deal of being a catholic. Anyway, as I said, with this Pope on his way out, I personally believe that in future the Church will permit artificial methods of contraception and will play a far bigger part in addressing matters such as the AIDS epidemic in Africa. It is, after all, exactly what Jesus would have done. The problem with the Catholic Church is that it does change, but it just takes blody ages to do it. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
Alert a moderator to this post

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 18 Mar 05 7.27pm

Quote A_JsShorts at 18 Mar 2005 6:55pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 18 Mar 2005 6:14pm

Quote A_JsShorts at 17 Mar 2005 9:03pm

The Pope is another debate altogether, and is honestly a danger to society. Not physically obviously!!!

Edited by A_JsShorts (17 Mar 2005 9:04pm)

And how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Welcome back Mr Funt

Thank you for your welcome.

The Catholic Church is, I think, very close to altering its position re: birth control. When it was 'banned' (which it wasn't quite as it was frowned upon but left to individual conscience) in 1967, a commision appointed by the then Pope actually advised that barrier methods of contraception could sit comfortably within existing Church teaching. For reasons best known to himself, he chose to ignore that advice, and that position has been maintained by the current Pope. I'm not aware of him saying that condoms actually facilitate the transmission of HIV (I stand to be corrected on that point) but his condemnation (or should that be condomnation) of them is for spiritual reasons rather than anything else and that, of course, is the root of the problem.

I'm not sure that the spread of HIV in Africa is anything to do with the Pope; it's more a question of condoms just not being as freely available there as they are in the 'civilised' world. His comments, if they're true, are certainly irresponsible as they are not founded in fact but I don't think the Pope can be condemned out of hand for reminding the church's members what their obligations are - no blobs is part of the deal of being a catholic.

Anyway, as I said, with this Pope on his way out, I personally believe that in future the Church will permit artificial methods of contraception and will play a far bigger part in addressing matters such as the AIDS epidemic in Africa. It is, after all, exactly what Jesus would have done. The problem with the Catholic Church is that it does change, but it just takes blody ages to do it.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Alert a moderator to this post

A_JsShorts 18 Mar 05 7.40pm
Basically the Vatican argues that condoms are full of tiny holes, I have a link to an article in the Guardian. [Link] Also, I can't have been clear, I am not saying that the pope has anything to do with the AIDs epidemic in Africa - far from it. I just think that with it being such a huge problem out there he is being extremely irresponsible. And your right he is on his way out the sooner the better as far as I am concerned!!
Alert a moderator to this post

A_JsShorts 18 Mar 05 7.40pm

Basically the Vatican argues that condoms are full of tiny holes, I have a link to an article in the Guardian.

[Link]

Also, I can't have been clear, I am not saying that the pope has anything to do with the AIDs epidemic in Africa - far from it. I just think that with it being such a huge problem out there he is being extremely irresponsible.

And your right he is on his way out the sooner the better as far as I am concerned!!

Alert a moderator to this post

Petealiator 1066 Country! 18 Mar 05 7.43pm
Quote A_JsShorts at 18 Mar 2005 7:40pm in the Guardian. Aaaah! Oh dear! My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
Alert a moderator to this post

Petealiator

1066 Country! 18 Mar 05 7.43pm

Quote A_JsShorts at 18 Mar 2005 7:40pm

in the Guardian.

Aaaah! Oh dear!

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

Alert a moderator to this post

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 18 Mar 05 7.46pm
Sounds like the Cardinal they've quoted is making an early pitch for the Papacy. Without wishing to get into a theological argument, there are grounds for permitting the use of condoms but it's going to take someone a little more enlightened than the present Pope to put it into practice. And before we knock John Paul II, he played a very big part in the fall of the Eastern Bloc and has publicy supported many, many worthwhile and humanitarian causes. Intransigent on some issues he may be, but he's not the satan you're making him out to be. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
Alert a moderator to this post

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 18 Mar 05 7.46pm

Sounds like the Cardinal they've quoted is making an early pitch for the Papacy.

Without wishing to get into a theological argument, there are grounds for permitting the use of condoms but it's going to take someone a little more enlightened than the present Pope to put it into practice. And before we knock John Paul II, he played a very big part in the fall of the Eastern Bloc and has publicy supported many, many worthwhile and humanitarian causes. Intransigent on some issues he may be, but he's not the satan you're making him out to be.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Alert a moderator to this post

A_JsShorts 18 Mar 05 8.00pm
Quote Petealiator at 18 Mar 2005 7:43pm Quote A_JsShorts at 18 Mar 2005 7:40pm in the Guardian. Aaaah! Oh dear! Sorry, should've known the Guardian wouldn't be the best source of evidence (but they seem to be the only paper to have ran the story!) for you so I have: BBC [Link] And I can't comment on the Popes good work, cos to be honest I don'y know much about it. Ignorant of me and I shall research! Edited by A_JsShorts (18 Mar 2005 8:01pm)
Alert a moderator to this post

A_JsShorts 18 Mar 05 8.00pm

Quote Petealiator at 18 Mar 2005 7:43pm

Quote A_JsShorts at 18 Mar 2005 7:40pm

in the Guardian.

Aaaah! Oh dear!

Sorry, should've known the Guardian wouldn't be the best source of evidence (but they seem to be the only paper to have ran the story!) for you so I have:

BBC [Link]

And I can't comment on the Popes good work, cos to be honest I don'y know much about it. Ignorant of me and I shall research!

Edited by A_JsShorts (18 Mar 2005 8:01pm)

Alert a moderator to this post

thornton-heath eagle 07 May 05 2.08am
Quote roffeyeagle at 16 Mar 2005 6:58pm Just looking at Britain, there is no way at all we can live in harmony if people (particularly Asians) openly practice their religions. The Christianity aspect of Britain is slowy dying by there is no way white Britains will accept Muslim extremists et al for much longer. It has to stop if this country wants to avoid serious conflict. I find it quite ignorant that you think all Muslims are Asian. You really should get your facts correct before you give your opinion on such a delicate subject. Muslims come froma all over the world, as do Christians. Did you know that there are many Christians in Sri Lanka, ****stan and Indonesia and many other countries on the Asian continent? Christianity isn't limited only to Europe, after all it did originate in the Middle East, where there are currently many Christians still. Christianity ans Islam originated from the same bit of the globe....something to think about .
Alert a moderator to this post

thornton-heath eagle 07 May 05 2.08am

Send a Private Message to thornton-heath eagle

Quote roffeyeagle at 16 Mar 2005 6:58pm

Just looking at Britain, there is no way at all we can live in harmony if people (particularly Asians) openly practice their religions. The Christianity aspect of Britain is slowy dying by there is no way white Britains will accept Muslim extremists et al for much longer. It has to stop if this country wants to avoid serious conflict.

I find it quite ignorant that you think all Muslims are Asian. You really should get your facts correct before you give your opinion on such a delicate subject. Muslims come froma all over the world, as do Christians. Did you know that there are many Christians in Sri Lanka, ****stan and Indonesia and many other countries on the Asian continent?
Christianity isn't limited only to Europe, after all it did originate in the Middle East, where there are currently many Christians still.
Christianity ans Islam originated from the same bit of the globe....something to think about

Alert a moderator to this post

thornton-heath eagle 07 May 05 2.22am
Jonsey Flag THE REAL JONSEY Time 17 Mar 2005 2:04am shame the muslims dont think the same, as if there is any sign of christianity or any religion other than the muslim faith being practised in there desert sorry countries you will more than likely be imprissoned or severly punished your theory is despicable!!! the middle still has many Christians living there who are of Arab race (not to mention the thousands of foregin workers there from European countries) As for Asian countries where Muslims are the majority, Christians are also there - Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Mayalsia, Thailand, Paakistan etc... I haven't seen many of them being punished for their religion or imprisoned. As for the desert, Christianity began in that same desert!!! Jesus wasn't born in Europe!! Was he?? Edited by thornton-heath eagle (07 May 2005 2:24am) .
Alert a moderator to this post

thornton-heath eagle 07 May 05 2.22am

Jonsey Flag THE REAL JONSEY Time 17 Mar 2005 2:04am

shame the muslims dont think the same, as if there is any sign of christianity or any religion other than the muslim faith being practised in there desert sorry countries you will more than likely be imprissoned or severly punished

your theory is despicable!!! the middle still has many Christians living there who are of Arab race (not to mention the thousands of foregin workers there from European countries) As for Asian countries where Muslims are the majority, Christians are also there - Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Mayalsia, Thailand, Paakistan etc...
I haven't seen many of them being punished for their religion or imprisoned.

As for the desert, Christianity began in that same desert!!!
Jesus wasn't born in Europe!!
Was he??

Edited by thornton-heath eagle (07 May 2005 2:24am)

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 8 of 9 < 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Does religion have a place in modern society?

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors