Performance of the new government

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Performance of the new government

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silvertop Portishead 22 Jul 24 11.34am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Climate change hysteria is very much a middle class and above phenomenon. They can afford the implications. I detect a lot of narcissism and general hubris within that movement. When you see the protests it's always the same kind of white liberal activists...mostly women or effeminate men. They largely ignore the tiny affect that the British isles has towards any climate change and instead insist that we become an example to the world in general and lead the way. Because in truth it's far less about any real affect it would have and has more to do with their saviour complex. Again, these people are a minority within the country who bully and dictate to others who never had anything to do with how we got here. It's an often made observation but the real 'polluters' aren't here but in China/India/US. If they were serious about tackling the issue they would direct all their resources into movements there. But again, that would mean they didn't get to display and virtue signal here....They say they want to save the earth, but that obviously doesn't mean moving to the countries where that change would be required. Pious, but not that pious. I agree the substance of this post but it is not always nice people who get us to where we want to be. CEOs, pioneering scientists, philosophical giants, leaders in the creative arts - you wouldn't want to spend 10 seconds with any of them. If the outcome of all this protest is a better British Isles, I don't give a hoot how pious and unwashed the folk are who helped us get there.
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silvertop

Portishead 22 Jul 24 11.34am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Climate change hysteria is very much a middle class and above phenomenon.

They can afford the implications.

I detect a lot of narcissism and general hubris within that movement. When you see the protests it's always the same kind of white liberal activists...mostly women or effeminate men.

They largely ignore the tiny affect that the British isles has towards any climate change and instead insist that we become an example to the world in general and lead the way. Because in truth it's far less about any real affect it would have and has more to do with their saviour complex.

Again, these people are a minority within the country who bully and dictate to others who never had anything to do with how we got here.

It's an often made observation but the real 'polluters' aren't here but in China/India/US. If they were serious about tackling the issue they would direct all their resources into movements there.

But again, that would mean they didn't get to display and virtue signal here....They say they want to save the earth, but that obviously doesn't mean moving to the countries where that change would be required.

Pious, but not that pious.

I agree the substance of this post but it is not always nice people who get us to where we want to be. CEOs, pioneering scientists, philosophical giants, leaders in the creative arts - you wouldn't want to spend 10 seconds with any of them.

If the outcome of all this protest is a better British Isles, I don't give a hoot how pious and unwashed the folk are who helped us get there.

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Stirlingsays 22 Jul 24 11.39am
Originally posted by silvertop I agree the substance of this post but it is not always nice people who get us to where we want to be. CEOs, pioneering scientists, philosophical giants, leaders in the creative arts - you wouldn't want to spend 10 seconds with any of them. If the outcome of all this protest is a better British Isles, I don't give a hoot how pious and unwashed the folk are who helped us get there. Therein lies the rub. Is it the right path energy or cost wise? Personally I think renewables can't cut it and will prove a massively inefficient investment....the technology just isn't there yet. That said, as it looks like this is what's happening anyway let's hope that those like me are wrong. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2024 11.42am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Jul 24 11.39am

Originally posted by silvertop

If the outcome of all this protest is a better British Isles, I don't give a hoot how pious and unwashed the folk are who helped us get there.

Therein lies the rub.

Is it the right path energy or cost wise? Personally I think renewables can't cut it and will prove a massively inefficient investment....the technology just isn't there yet.

That said, as it looks like this is what's happening anyway let's hope that those like me are wrong.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2024 11.42am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jul 24 11.44am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I like some of the ideas and obviously not others, but it just seems like big commitments with no obvious means of paying for it. Like they are spending (borrowing) on the projection of growth they haven't got. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2024 11.22am) I was watching something earlier that said that the state pension could become non viable by as early as 2035. There won't be enough money to honour the commitment to pensioners. It is essential that the magic ratio of tax paying workers to state payouts is achieved. We cannot rely on immigration. We cannot allow tax evasion. Most importantly, we have to increase the birth rate and steer a new generation towards a more productive life and a greater sense of societal responsibility. Let's be honest, that some Brits have become far too entitled and others disenfranchised in their own country. England has to be for the English again, and we English have to raise our standards. We have to value family more and put aside the shallow consumer mentality that corporations have brainwashed us with.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jul 24 11.44am

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I like some of the ideas and obviously not others, but it just seems like big commitments with no obvious means of paying for it.

Like they are spending (borrowing) on the projection of growth they haven't got.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2024 11.22am)

I was watching something earlier that said that the state pension could become non viable by as early as 2035.
There won't be enough money to honour the commitment to pensioners.

It is essential that the magic ratio of tax paying workers to state payouts is achieved.
We cannot rely on immigration. We cannot allow tax evasion.
Most importantly, we have to increase the birth rate and steer a new generation towards a more productive life and a greater sense of societal responsibility.

Let's be honest, that some Brits have become far too entitled and others disenfranchised in their own country.

England has to be for the English again, and we English have to raise our standards.
We have to value family more and put aside the shallow consumer mentality that corporations have brainwashed us with.

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Badger11 Beckenham 22 Jul 24 12.16pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Also - how are they going to fund the over inflation public sector pay rises, which if they go out across the board, will cost £23billion apparently. This is all going to go wrong very quickly. Yup this is a real problem for Labour and would have been for the Tories as well. I noticed that the universities have been bleating that they are about to go bust because the student loan cap is not enough and there are now restrictions on foreign students. Annoyingly the media articles I have read have all been sympathetic with talk of more money or relaxing the foreign student restrictions, none have raised the obvious question which I hope this government will do. What cutbacks have you made? Any business, and universities are just that, would cut back in their situation. How many useless degrees have they now cancelled? How many useless lecturers who spend all their time doing personal research and avoiding teaching students have they let go? If they have cancelled courses have they been able to sell off surplus buildings etc. Have they considered cancelling their sabbatical schemes where lecturers get paid leave of absence for months (nice work if you can get it). The answer I suspect is very little of this has happened. Universities seem to think they are above belt tightening. I'm not anti university far from it but they should not get a blank check from Labour. Edited by Badger11 (22 Jul 2024 12.22pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 22 Jul 24 12.16pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Also - how are they going to fund the over inflation public sector pay rises, which if they go out across the board, will cost £23billion apparently.
This is all going to go wrong very quickly.

Yup this is a real problem for Labour and would have been for the Tories as well.

I noticed that the universities have been bleating that they are about to go bust because the student loan cap is not enough and there are now restrictions on foreign students.

Annoyingly the media articles I have read have all been sympathetic with talk of more money or relaxing the foreign student restrictions, none have raised the obvious question which I hope this government will do.

What cutbacks have you made?

Any business, and universities are just that, would cut back in their situation. How many useless degrees have they now cancelled? How many useless lecturers who spend all their time doing personal research and avoiding teaching students have they let go?

If they have cancelled courses have they been able to sell off surplus buildings etc.

Have they considered cancelling their sabbatical schemes where lecturers get paid leave of absence for months (nice work if you can get it).

The answer I suspect is very little of this has happened. Universities seem to think they are above belt tightening.

I'm not anti university far from it but they should not get a blank check from Labour.

Edited by Badger11 (22 Jul 2024 12.22pm)

One more point

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 22 Jul 24 4.53pm
There are a lot of people who spent much of the election campaign objecting to every and any suggestion of increasing tax revenues who are now concerned that we cannot fund the things we would like our society to have. It feels very contradictory.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 22 Jul 24 4.53pm

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There are a lot of people who spent much of the election campaign objecting to every and any suggestion of increasing tax revenues who are now concerned that we cannot fund the things we would like our society to have.

It feels very contradictory.

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Badger11 Beckenham 22 Jul 24 5.00pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow There are a lot of people who spent much of the election campaign objecting to every and any suggestion of increasing tax revenues who are now concerned that we cannot fund the things we would like our society to have. It feels very contradictory. I think people are just pointing out that Labour will have a big tax hole to fill if they plan to keep their promises. I hope they succeed I think we would all love to see a better society but unfortunately this costs money and labour keep saying that they will not put up the key taxes whilst promising more spending. It's a difficult circle to square. Going after tax dodgers will only bring in so much. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 22 Jul 24 5.00pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It feels very contradictory.

I think people are just pointing out that Labour will have a big tax hole to fill if they plan to keep their promises.

I hope they succeed I think we would all love to see a better society but unfortunately this costs money and labour keep saying that they will not put up the key taxes whilst promising more spending.

It's a difficult circle to square. Going after tax dodgers will only bring in so much.

One more point

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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 22 Jul 24 5.05pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Climate change hysteria is very much a middle class and above phenomenon. They can afford the implications. I detect a lot of narcissism and general hubris within that movement. When you see the protests it's always the same kind of white liberal activists...mostly women or effeminate men. They largely ignore the tiny affect that the British isles has towards any climate change and instead insist that we become an example to the world in general and lead the way. Because in truth it's far less about any real affect it would have and has more to do with their saviour complex. Again, these people are a minority within the country who bully and dictate to others who never had anything to do with how we got here. It's an often made observation but the real 'polluters' aren't here but in China/India/US. If they were serious about tackling the issue they would direct all their resources into movements there. But again, that would mean they didn't get to display and virtue signal here....They say they want to save the earth, but that obviously doesn't mean moving to the countries where that change would be required. Pious, but not that pious. Don't you just love it... Green Party MP Adrian Ramsay is resisting plans for new pylons in his East Anglian constituency of Waveney Valley, which would transport electricity from offshore windfarms to homes onshore, despite his party calling for the most ambitious decarbonisation targets. hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.
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Behind Enemy Lines

Sussex 22 Jul 24 5.05pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Climate change hysteria is very much a middle class and above phenomenon.

They can afford the implications.

I detect a lot of narcissism and general hubris within that movement. When you see the protests it's always the same kind of white liberal activists...mostly women or effeminate men.

Again, these people are a minority within the country who bully and dictate to others who never had anything to do with how we got here.

It's an often made observation but the real 'polluters' aren't here but in China/India/US. If they were serious about tackling the issue they would direct all their resources into movements there.

Pious, but not that pious.

Don't you just love it...

Green Party MP Adrian Ramsay is resisting plans for new pylons in his East Anglian constituency of Waveney Valley, which would transport electricity from offshore windfarms to homes onshore, despite his party calling for the most ambitious decarbonisation targets.

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 22 Jul 24 5.10pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I think people are just pointing out that Labour will have a big tax hole to fill if they plan to keep their promises. I hope they succeed I think we would all love to see a better society but unfortunately this costs money and labour keep saying that they will not put up the key taxes whilst promising more spending. It's a difficult circle to square. Going after tax dodgers will only bring in so much. It’s not really about Labour keeping their promises - it’s about the country being able to continue to afford things like a state pension - this is not about a specific government or party, the current economic model cannot function with the population dynamics we have. It seems like everyone accepts that reality, but don’t like any attempt to remedy it - people were drastically opposed to pretty tame measures like the private school VAT exemption, never mind any significant increase in taxes for a majority of people.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 22 Jul 24 5.10pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I think people are just pointing out that Labour will have a big tax hole to fill if they plan to keep their promises.

I hope they succeed I think we would all love to see a better society but unfortunately this costs money and labour keep saying that they will not put up the key taxes whilst promising more spending.

It's a difficult circle to square. Going after tax dodgers will only bring in so much.

It’s not really about Labour keeping their promises - it’s about the country being able to continue to afford things like a state pension - this is not about a specific government or party, the current economic model cannot function with the population dynamics we have.

It seems like everyone accepts that reality, but don’t like any attempt to remedy it - people were drastically opposed to pretty tame measures like the private school VAT exemption, never mind any significant increase in taxes for a majority of people.

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jul 24 5.29pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow It’s not really about Labour keeping their promises - it’s about the country being able to continue to afford things like a state pension - this is not about a specific government or party, the current economic model cannot function with the population dynamics we have. It seems like everyone accepts that reality, but don’t like any attempt to remedy it - people were drastically opposed to pretty tame measures like the private school VAT exemption, never mind any significant increase in taxes for a majority of people. Private school tax won't scratch the surface. That is purely an ideological decision. As I have previously said, taxation can delay the inevitable, but the only long term answer is for the average couple to have more children and for those children to be properly prepared for employment. It isn't rocket science. We must reach the perfect ratio between the young and employed and the old claiming state pension. Importing more spongers will not solve anything. Pop up foreign businesses avoiding tax and employing illegals will not solve anything either. Politicians have allowed this mess. Will this government be any better?
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jul 24 5.29pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Private school tax won't scratch the surface. That is purely an ideological decision.

As I have previously said, taxation can delay the inevitable, but the only long term answer is for the average couple to have more children and for those children to be properly prepared for employment.

It isn't rocket science.

We must reach the perfect ratio between the young and employed and the old claiming state pension.

Importing more spongers will not solve anything. Pop up foreign businesses avoiding tax and employing illegals will not solve anything either.

Politicians have allowed this mess. Will this government be any better?

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 22 Jul 24 5.36pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Private school tax won't scratch the surface. That is purely an ideological decision. As I have previously said, taxation can delay the inevitable, but the only long term answer is for the average couple to have more children and for those children to be properly prepared for employment. It isn't rocket science. We must reach the perfect ratio between the young and employed and the old claiming state pension. Importing more spongers will not solve anything. Pop up foreign businesses avoiding tax and employing illegals will not solve anything either. Politicians have allowed this mess. Will this government be any better? I’m not suggesting it would, but it’s an example of the contradiction I described. We had this exchange the other day - I don’t disagree with you but the things you propose don’t move the dial for decades - something has to give before then and the options are to bring in more taxpayers or for the existing population to pay more tax.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 22 Jul 24 5.36pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Private school tax won't scratch the surface. That is purely an ideological decision.

It isn't rocket science.

We must reach the perfect ratio between the young and employed and the old claiming state pension.

Importing more spongers will not solve anything. Pop up foreign businesses avoiding tax and employing illegals will not solve anything either.

Politicians have allowed this mess. Will this government be any better?

I’m not suggesting it would, but it’s an example of the contradiction I described.

We had this exchange the other day - I don’t disagree with you but the things you propose don’t move the dial for decades - something has to give before then and the options are to bring in more taxpayers or for the existing population to pay more tax.

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cryrst The garden of England 22 Jul 24 5.36pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I think people are just pointing out that Labour will have a big tax hole to fill if they plan to keep their promises. I hope they succeed I think we would all love to see a better society but unfortunately this costs money and labour keep saying that they will not put up the key taxes whilst promising more spending. It's a difficult circle to square. Going after tax dodgers will only bring in so much. Sorting out the top heavy NHS, the wastage in schools , the crazy rewarding benefits system and the expense on immigrants will find the dough. I don’t personally think the last two will garner much in the bigger picture but it will be something. The first two are seriously in need of modification. Procurement of parts and the rest will certainly help. The problem isn’t from us the public, the problem comes from the closed minds of the untouchable mouth pieces inside these organisations. Deal with them and the rest will be easy In reality.
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cryrst

The garden of England 22 Jul 24 5.36pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I think people are just pointing out that Labour will have a big tax hole to fill if they plan to keep their promises.

I hope they succeed I think we would all love to see a better society but unfortunately this costs money and labour keep saying that they will not put up the key taxes whilst promising more spending.

It's a difficult circle to square. Going after tax dodgers will only bring in so much.

Sorting out the top heavy NHS, the wastage in schools , the crazy rewarding benefits system and the expense on immigrants will find the dough. I don’t personally think the last two will garner much in the bigger picture but it will be something. The first two are seriously in need of modification. Procurement of parts and the rest will certainly help. The problem isn’t from us the public, the problem comes from the closed minds of the untouchable mouth pieces inside these organisations. Deal with them and the rest will be easy In reality.

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Eden Eagle Kent 22 Jul 24 6.24pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin They have spent every waking moment telling us that the Tories left a mess and are concentrating far too much on that. Reeves is the worst - what did she expect after we spent £400m on covid/furlough etc. IT is being said that our current basket case economy is better than the one the Tories took over in 2010 - it must have been bad back then! Labour just want to have everyone saying how bad the Tories were, so that they can fiddle about under the radar. I note that the media - BBC in particular - rarely mention new migrants arriving in small boats. If the Tories were in power it would be a headline every day. Not wishing to dilute your point but wanted to point out it was north of £400 billion wasted on Covid - no wonder we are broke!
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Eden Eagle

Kent 22 Jul 24 6.24pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

They have spent every waking moment telling us that the Tories left a mess and are concentrating far too much on that.
Reeves is the worst - what did she expect after we spent £400m on covid/furlough etc.
IT is being said that our current basket case economy is better than the one the Tories took over in 2010 - it must have been bad back then!
Labour just want to have everyone saying how bad the Tories were, so that they can fiddle about under the radar.
I note that the media - BBC in particular - rarely mention new migrants arriving in small boats.
If the Tories were in power it would be a headline every day.

Not wishing to dilute your point but wanted to point out it was north of £400 billion wasted on Covid - no wonder we are broke!

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