2024 General Election

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2024 General Election

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Stirlingsays 05 Jul 24 11.14am
Originally posted by silvertop No Willo they know how they got there. The task is to assemble a team worthy of being an effective opposition that will properly hold Labour to account. But first the recriminations and political punch ups. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Jul 24 11.14am

Originally posted by silvertop

No Willo they know how they got there. The task is to assemble a team worthy of being an effective opposition that will properly hold Labour to account.

But first the recriminations and political punch ups.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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silvertop Portishead 05 Jul 24 11.18am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays FPTP is unfair....but I'm not so sure that I favour changing it. The benefit of FPTP is that it gives the winner their sway to actually get things done without compromising every five minutes. This can be either very good or very bad depending upon your worldview.....However, from my perspective at least you have the opportunity for action....Not that the Tories took it in 2019. So I'm having a moan rather than calling for ditching FPTP.....though I concede that it isn't fair as PR......it's just that PR leads to stalemate and political horse trading. Ah, you appear to subscribe to the weak government perspective. Scandinavia, Benelux, Germany - all places with PR, strong government and where people generally live quite well. A leap into PR would be too great a shock. There needs to be a will for gradual transition over a generation. Not likely now with a party in power who just won 2/3 of the seats with only 1/3 of the vote.
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silvertop

Portishead 05 Jul 24 11.18am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

FPTP is unfair....but I'm not so sure that I favour changing it.

The benefit of FPTP is that it gives the winner their sway to actually get things done without compromising every five minutes.

This can be either very good or very bad depending upon your worldview.....However, from my perspective at least you have the opportunity for action....Not that the Tories took it in 2019.

So I'm having a moan rather than calling for ditching FPTP.....though I concede that it isn't fair as PR......it's just that PR leads to stalemate and political horse trading.

Ah, you appear to subscribe to the weak government perspective.

Scandinavia, Benelux, Germany - all places with PR, strong government and where people generally live quite well.

A leap into PR would be too great a shock. There needs to be a will for gradual transition over a generation.

Not likely now with a party in power who just won 2/3 of the seats with only 1/3 of the vote.

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silvertop Portishead 05 Jul 24 11.23am
By way of tawdry and puerile lowering of tone, I get my news online and via the radio. I watch very little broadcast news. Thus, I just got my first proper sight of the new "First Lady". And that is the second time I have felt compelled to use that emoji in as many days
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silvertop

Portishead 05 Jul 24 11.23am

By way of tawdry and puerile lowering of tone, I get my news online and via the radio. I watch very little broadcast news. Thus, I just got my first proper sight of the new "First Lady".

And that is the second time I have felt compelled to use that emoji in as many days

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Jul 24 11.23am
Originally posted by silvertop Ah, you appear to subscribe to the weak government perspective. Scandinavia, Benelux, Germany - all places with PR, strong government and where people generally live quite well. A leap into PR would be too great a shock. There needs to be a will for gradual transition over a generation. Not likely now with a party in power who just won 2/3 of the seats with only 1/3 of the vote. There are many types of PR. Don't use the Irish one - it's a load of bollox. However, a simpler form would likely be useful for the UK. It would likely be used in local elections first as a trial. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Jul 24 11.23am

Originally posted by silvertop

Ah, you appear to subscribe to the weak government perspective.

Scandinavia, Benelux, Germany - all places with PR, strong government and where people generally live quite well.

A leap into PR would be too great a shock. There needs to be a will for gradual transition over a generation.

Not likely now with a party in power who just won 2/3 of the seats with only 1/3 of the vote.

There are many types of PR. Don't use the Irish one - it's a load of bollox. However, a simpler form would likely be useful for the UK. It would likely be used in local elections first as a trial.

Red and Blue Army!

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Jul 24 11.24am
Originally posted by silvertop By way of tawdry and puerile lowering of tone, I get my news online and via the radio. I watch very little broadcast news. Thus, I just got my first proper sight of the new "First Lady". And that is the second time I have felt compelled to use that emoji in as many days He's punching above his weight. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Jul 24 11.24am

Originally posted by silvertop

By way of tawdry and puerile lowering of tone, I get my news online and via the radio. I watch very little broadcast news. Thus, I just got my first proper sight of the new "First Lady".

And that is the second time I have felt compelled to use that emoji in as many days

He's punching above his weight.

Red and Blue Army!

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Jul 24 11.25am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The simple facts is that the Tories were doomed as soon as we had a pandemic. It was a no win situation. In terms of the Reform vote. The government failed to listen to what people care about. They failed to tackle the dire effect that increasing immigration has had on this country and instead allowed it to rapidly increase instead. They also failed to halt the very visible surge of illegals coming across the channel. Reform got 15% of the vote as a result with many effectively punishing the Tories. The electoral system does not properly represent those people and has allowed a huge majority for a party who are the antithesis of the political direction that most people want. Unfortunate but necessary this time. Despite that, Labour are on shaky ground. If they don't deal with what people care about and tax as they usually do, they will be gone next time. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jul 2024 9.00am) I'm still not convinced that there's any other correlation between parties like UKIP and it's rebranded incarnation than immigration problem = more votes. Much like Brexit. If either Labour or the Conservatives actually tackle the issue vaguely well then those votes fall away pretty rapidly. Although there's an argument to say the more it focuses on illegal immigration rather than legal immigration that will never be solved by anyone anyway. It's also worth thinking about how much of the reform vote is in fact protest... much like Lib Dems share. I really don't think much more than half of the Reform vote are people who wanted to vote Reform. So any ideas of mergers with the Tories in 2029 is way way too optimistic. Maybe in three elections time, if ever. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 05 Jul 24 11.25am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The simple facts is that the Tories were doomed as soon as we had a pandemic. It was a no win situation.

In terms of the Reform vote. The government failed to listen to what people care about.
They failed to tackle the dire effect that increasing immigration has had on this country and instead allowed it to rapidly increase instead. They also failed to halt the very visible surge of illegals coming across the channel.

Reform got 15% of the vote as a result with many effectively punishing the Tories. The electoral system does not properly represent those people and has allowed a huge majority for a party who are the antithesis of the political direction that most people want. Unfortunate but necessary this time.
Despite that, Labour are on shaky ground. If they don't deal with what people care about and tax as they usually do, they will be gone next time.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jul 2024 9.00am)

I'm still not convinced that there's any other correlation between parties like UKIP and it's rebranded incarnation than immigration problem = more votes. Much like Brexit.

If either Labour or the Conservatives actually tackle the issue vaguely well then those votes fall away pretty rapidly. Although there's an argument to say the more it focuses on illegal immigration rather than legal immigration that will never be solved by anyone anyway.

It's also worth thinking about how much of the reform vote is in fact protest... much like Lib Dems share. I really don't think much more than half of the Reform vote are people who wanted to vote Reform.

So any ideas of mergers with the Tories in 2029 is way way too optimistic. Maybe in three elections time, if ever.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Jul 24 11.26am
Originally posted by silvertop No Willo they know how they got there. The task is to assemble a team worthy of being an effective opposition that will properly hold Labour to account. There will be a smorgasbord of opinions and explanations as to why the Conservative 'Brand' was so badly damaged. Edited by Willo (05 Jul 2024 11.27am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Jul 24 11.26am

Originally posted by silvertop

No Willo they know how they got there. The task is to assemble a team worthy of being an effective opposition that will properly hold Labour to account.

There will be a smorgasbord of opinions and explanations as to why the Conservative 'Brand' was so badly damaged.

Edited by Willo (05 Jul 2024 11.27am)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Jul 24 11.37am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays But first the recriminations and political punch ups. I suspect bloodletting will be on the agenda. Apropos Sunak,he will go down as the Conservative Prime Minister and leader who had the worst election result in over a century.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Jul 24 11.37am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

But first the recriminations and political punch ups.

I suspect bloodletting will be on the agenda.

Apropos Sunak,he will go down as the Conservative Prime Minister and leader who had the worst election result in over a century.

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silvertop Portishead 05 Jul 24 11.58am
Originally posted by Willo I suspect bloodletting will be on the agenda. Apropos Sunak,he will go down as the Conservative Prime Minister and leader who had the worst election result in over a century. In the small part of the election broadcast I watched, I expected any moment for them to say: "And we are now going live to Heathrow..." Sunak + family boarding the one way flight to the US.
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silvertop

Portishead 05 Jul 24 11.58am

Originally posted by Willo

I suspect bloodletting will be on the agenda.

Apropos Sunak,he will go down as the Conservative Prime Minister and leader who had the worst election result in over a century.

In the small part of the election broadcast I watched, I expected any moment for them to say:

"And we are now going live to Heathrow..."

Sunak + family boarding the one way flight to the US.

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Vectis 05 Jul 24 12.25pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow This system really is a farce and is barely democratic, as I’ve been saying for years. The fact Reform can earn a significantly higher vote share than the Lib Dems and come away with not even 10% of the seats is pathetic. The average turnout was 60%. Labour got 35% of the votes. So only 21% of those who were eligible to vote in fact voted for Labour (60% x 35%). That enables them to have total control of Parliament even though 79% of those eligible to vote did not choose them. Then add in a party getting half a million more votes than another and getting only 4 seats against 71 and the question needs asking is this effective democracy in action?
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Vectis

05 Jul 24 12.25pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

This system really is a farce and is barely democratic, as I’ve been saying for years.

The fact Reform can earn a significantly higher vote share than the Lib Dems and come away with not even 10% of the seats is pathetic.

The average turnout was 60%. Labour got 35% of the votes. So only 21% of those who were eligible to vote in fact voted for Labour (60% x 35%). That enables them to have total control of Parliament even though 79% of those eligible to vote did not choose them. Then add in a party getting half a million more votes than another and getting only 4 seats against 71 and the question needs asking is this effective democracy in action?

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jul 24 12.32pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC I'm still not convinced that there's any other correlation between parties like UKIP and it's rebranded incarnation than immigration problem = more votes. Much like Brexit. If either Labour or the Conservatives actually tackle the issue vaguely well then those votes fall away pretty rapidly. Although there's an argument to say the more it focuses on illegal immigration rather than legal immigration that will never be solved by anyone anyway. It's also worth thinking about how much of the reform vote is in fact protest... much like Lib Dems share. I really don't think much more than half of the Reform vote are people who wanted to vote Reform. So any ideas of mergers with the Tories in 2029 is way way too optimistic. Maybe in three elections time, if ever. People want to halt mass immigration and secure our borders. They will vote in a way that they perceive will achieve that. Labour will have to be careful. If they don't improve the situation or make it worse, that will increase Reform's chances of a much better result next time.
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Jul 24 12.32pm

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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'm still not convinced that there's any other correlation between parties like UKIP and it's rebranded incarnation than immigration problem = more votes. Much like Brexit.

So any ideas of mergers with the Tories in 2029 is way way too optimistic. Maybe in three elections time, if ever.

People want to halt mass immigration and secure our borders.

They will vote in a way that they perceive will achieve that.

Labour will have to be careful. If they don't improve the situation or make it worse, that will increase Reform's chances of a much better result next time.

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Badger11 Beckenham 05 Jul 24 12.43pm
Originally posted by silvertop Ah, you appear to subscribe to the weak government perspective. Scandinavia, Benelux, Germany - all places with PR, strong government and where people generally live quite well. A leap into PR would be too great a shock. There needs to be a will for gradual transition over a generation. Not likely now with a party in power who just won 2/3 of the seats with only 1/3 of the vote. For all it's faults I still prefer FTTP even though I voted Reform. PR may be "fairer" but often leads to minority parties holding the balance of power, err no thanks. I accept that Labour have won and have the right to govern, that wont stop me moaning about their policies though, which is my right. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 05 Jul 24 12.43pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Ah, you appear to subscribe to the weak government perspective.

Scandinavia, Benelux, Germany - all places with PR, strong government and where people generally live quite well.

A leap into PR would be too great a shock. There needs to be a will for gradual transition over a generation.

Not likely now with a party in power who just won 2/3 of the seats with only 1/3 of the vote.

For all it's faults I still prefer FTTP even though I voted Reform.

PR may be "fairer" but often leads to minority parties holding the balance of power, err no thanks.

I accept that Labour have won and have the right to govern, that wont stop me moaning about their policies though, which is my right.

One more point

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