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Not too concerned about England's performance yesterday, not a bad thing to go into last group game needing to put in a good performance to win to top the group, at least they can go into the knockout stages on the back of possibly a good performance and not having a game spare having already progressed.
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Originally posted by YT
Yes it would be much better to only react badly to (say) every other bad England game or perhaps one in every three. How many times have you suggested you’ll go and support Chelsea after a poor Palace performance (or three if you like) YT? Do you see that often on here?
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Originally posted by YT
Assuming you are ignoring the Nations League which presumably doesn't fit your narrative, oh and the 2018 World Cup where Belgium in England's group won all 3 of their matches, then yes; you are right! My... narrative..? If I'm wrong I am quite shortly to be found out and will admit it. On your post, of course I'm ignoring the nation's league as the FA largely do. As for 2018, did we not reach the last 4 for the first time in a world cup for 52 years?
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Originally posted by silvertop
My... narrative..? If I'm wrong I am quite shortly to be found out and will admit it. On your post, of course I'm ignoring the nation's league as the FA largely do. As for 2018, did we not reach the last 4 for the first time in a world cup for 52 years?
Sorry, I thought you said England had topped their group every time Southgate has been in charge, so I was responding to that. The answer is that they haven't. You never mentioned a semi-final. Your 'narrative' is to try to convince everyone that England aren't in fact as crap as everyone can see with their own eyes that they are. Ignoring their performance in the Nations League, and particularly their dismal performance in the last one, is just laughable.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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For me, this is an ominous snippet from Southgate's press conference yesterday: "with the profile of players that we've got we don't feel the way to press is really high up the pitch and I don't think that's the physical level of the team at the moment either." In the starting eleven yesterday we had Rice and Saka (Arsenal), Foden (Man City), and TAA (Liverpool). All midfied or forward personnel paying for teams in the Premier League that literally do just that successfully each week. Plus Bellingham and Gallagher (the latter coming off the bench) who are proverbial butcher's dogs as well, leaving few blades of grass untouched. So it's not that they do not know how to press high, or are unable to do it.
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I'm not doing Professor Hindsight but I expressed a lack of confidence before the tournament, despite the supposed quality of our squad - which may be a bit overrated. Southgate hasn't found the way to organise his players effectively, for me the elephant in the room is that for England Bellingham should not play upfield as he does for Real, he should partner Rice in deep midfield (it reminds me of the old Lampard/Gerrard problem which nobody could admit at the time). That way we would have the protection to play 3 at the back if we wanted and maybe use Trent as a wing back, and Foden could have the freedom he needs playing number 10, linking up left right and centre (literally). We don't have a replacement for Kalvin Phillips we have an upgrade: Jude. Southgate didn't have the confidence or bottle to do what the team needs, he just followed Ancelotti, understandably because that ploy has been successful - it's too easy to take all the good things Southgate has done for granted and pick on the errors - but over our next two or three games we are going to really find out if he has what it takes or not - there's no hiding place and the man u fans who don't want him at OT will have their fears either conformed or denied. And as for the quality of our players - I'm not sure many of our stars have the footballing intelligence or technique shown by many of the Austrian, Danish or Swiss players. There's skill (flair) and there's technique (less easy to spot - less pleasing to the eye) - would Eze get into the Austrian team? I doubt it.
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Originally posted by YT
Sorry, I thought you said England had topped their group every time Southgate has been in charge, so I was responding to that. The answer is that they haven't. You never mentioned a semi-final. Your 'narrative' is to try to convince everyone that England aren't in fact as crap as everyone can see with their own eyes that they are. Ignoring their performance in the Nations League, and particularly their dismal performance in the last one, is just laughable. Topping the group not really my point. And the nation's league is something we are required to do like putting out a proper team for the league Cup. No attendance, no Euros or World Cup. Its a team builder with the only requirement that the players are sent on their holiday unscathed. Otherwise you describe my argument as laughable but without raising a single point of value to oppose it. Thus Southgate defended his tactics based on player energy. What he said was there wasn't enough. That has been attacked on here based on a literal interpretation. What he meant was there wasn't enough to maintain that level for 7 games.
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Originally posted by silvertop
Topping the group not really my point. And the nation's league is something we are required to do like putting out a proper team for the league Cup. No attendance, no Euros or World Cup. Its a team builder with the only requirement that the players are sent on their holiday unscathed. Otherwise you describe my argument as laughable but without raising a single point of value to oppose it. Thus Southgate defended his tactics based on player energy. What he said was there wasn't enough. That has been attacked on here based on a literal interpretation. What he meant was there wasn't enough to maintain that level for 7 games. He didn't conserve their energy properly at all though did he? He made subs but it was subs for people doing crap rather than being tired. Perhaps Kane the exception. I posted earlier somewhere that Bellingham needed to be looked after - he was clearly tired in both games. As he has to carry the attacking threat of the whole team, it's hardly a surprise. Neither Trent Alexander-Arnold or Foden could have been tired. They did very little. They were, in fact, rubbish. Another one that needed a rest was Walker. He was another who didn't get one. Saka probably still remembers being subbed on to take a penalty. Who can blame him for that.
Red and Blue Army! |
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If our past 2 performances are part of some master plan to conserve energy for the later rounds why is it being reported that the players had a clear the air meeting? I can see the strategy and I am sure most managers would want their players to peak in the later stages but what i saw was clueless and lacking effort.
One more point |
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There were periods of play against Denmark where it looked as though large portions of the team had never played together before & had no clue as to what we were trying to achieve or how we were going to do it - If that isnt a basis for a having a clear the air meeting then quite frankly I honestly dont know.
Originally posted by Badger11
If our past 2 performances are part of some master plan to conserve energy for the later rounds why is it being reported that the players had a clear the air meeting? I can see the strategy and I am sure most managers would want their players to peak in the later stages but what i saw was clueless and lacking effort.
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A lot of talk around Wharton starting the next game. The Telegraph had this (copied + paste as you need to be a subscriber to read full article): There was a telling, almost existential comment from Adam Wharton, just 20 years old, with only 16 Premier League appearances and less than half an hour of international experience with England under his belt in a friendly against Bosnia and Herzegovina. “If I think I can’t handle this, then what am I doing here?” he asked of being at the European Championship. And that is the crux of the matter. Gareth Southgate must now experiment to fix his experiment. The attempt to convert Trent Alexander-Arnold into a controlling central midfielder, in the real-time the glare of a major finals, has not worked. Southgate admitted as such in substituting him after just 54 minutes of the 1-1 draw against Denmark which has led to several pundits losing their s--- (to borrow Gary Lineker’s scatalogy in describing England’s performance) but was nevertheless hugely disappointing. And not good enough. It is certainly not Alexander-Arnold’s fault. He has simply not played enough in that position. It is not just about having a wonderful passing range and he has not been helped by the over-exposure. And, so, Southgate faces a checklist of choices: does he leave out Alexander-Arnold for England’s final group game against Slovenia? The probability is yes, he will. Does he then turn to Conor Gallagher, his most other experienced central midfielder? Unfortunately, he struggled against the Danes. Does he move Jude Bellingham back? Possibly. Or does he roll the dice – experimenting to overcome that experiment, as it were – by turning to 19-year-old Kobbie Mainoo or Wharton, who is just 14 months older but has even less experience having only joined Crystal Palace in the January transfer window from Blackburn Rovers for £18 million before making such an extraordinary late run into the England squad? Advertisement To put their progress in context the pair were together in an England Under-19 camp only last year and have naturally gravitated towards each other having been called into the senior set-up. “I’ve spent the most time with Kobbie,” Wharton revealed. “Cole (Palmer) as well probably because they’re similar ages to me as well.” Now one of them might have to be England’s saviour. The decision to leave out Jordan Henderson appeared sound on form and fitness – the 34-year-old was just not playing well enough after the unhappy failure of his controversial move to the Saudi Pro-League and his struggles with Ajax – but it has robbed England of a vastly experienced, calming figure. A second captain. Maybe it would have been a tournament too far for Henderson but, right now, England appear to miss him and maybe, with that wonderful, unfair, perspective of hindsight it should have been him plus one of Mainoo or Wharton. Not both. After all, will either of those youngsters really play a substantial role in this tournament? They will hopefully be vital to England’s future but while attempting to safeguard that maybe Southgate has lost a little the need to concentrate on the here and now especially as this might end up being his final tournament as manager. It cannot always be about potential. Southgate came in for some brutal criticism for saying, post-Denmark, that England missed Kalvin Phillips, the Manchester City midfielder who has lost his way and who failed on loan at West Ham United. Except he did not say that. He said they lacked “a Kalvin Phillips” – that type of holding player, rather than that specific holding player. The “a” there is crucial. There has also been the age-old debate, one that Southgate has embraced and expanded upon, of how England lack a Luka Modric or Toni Kroos or even a Jorginho type midfielder. Or, to use the examples Wharton himself cited, a Rodri – his favourite - or N’Golo Kante. He watches both extremely closely. “There are different ways of playing my position, depending on how the team want to play,” Wharton explained. “If you’ve got a lot of the ball you need someone who is calm, composed and always willing to get on it. “I don’t think there’s a set way of playing that position. It’s a difficult position, not easy, you’ve got to be good on the ball and also cover the spaces off the ball where the opposition are dangerous if they can get through the middle.” He talks well. That is half the battle and it was again evident when he was asked about Southgate’s comment, pre-Euros, that England have been waiting for his style of player for several years. “I don’t really look at it or think about it. I just play how I play and I know that if I do that then I can help the team get forward, move the ball down the pitch, beat the press, that kind of stuff,” he said. “I don’t necessarily look at myself being special or anything like that. It’s just the way I play. “If I was to describe my game I would just say ‘it’s pretty simple but effective. If you’ve got great players in attack, like Bellingham, Foden, then you have to get them in the pockets. “All I want to do if you’ve got players like that is give them the ball because that’s when they come alive to produce bits of magic, create chances, score goals, things like that.” Wharton claimed to be not concerned about the attention. “They probably know I’m not too fussed by it all,” he said – before adding: “I try and live a game in my head as much as with my feet, whether that is making a movement to move the opposition so someone else can get the ball or trying to think a couple of passes ahead so when I do get the ball. I already know where I am going to play so if people think that is special then maybe it is but for me it is just normal.” That is the essence of the role that England lacks. Wharton talks a good game. The question is whether Southgate will now fully invest in him or Mainoo. Or neither.
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Tough call for Southgate play it safe or gamble. Yeah right.
One more point |
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