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Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad
Kane and Foden were the worst two players for us and TAA wasn’t far behind, if they stay in the team, quarters at most But you predicted a shambles, didn't you? It wasn't great but you surely can't claim that it was a shambles, can you? As I recall, they won, didn't they?
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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Well at least there is agreement about the under performers last night. I was surprised, but perhaps shouldn't have been, that Foden wasn't withdrawn at 60 or 70 mins for Eze. With the Serbs more committed to attack, it would have been ideal for him. Maybe that's an indication of where he really sits in the England ratings. He may not appear unless we end up with a dead rubber against Slovenia.
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I think we can guess how far down the pecking order our boys are. Foden needs to be dropped or used as a sub for Bellingham. TTA should be back up to Rice. As for the subs in fairness they did okay. Bowen and Gallagher made a nuisance of themselves which at least was something. I don't expect Southgate to learn any lessons from last night so it will be rinse and repeat until we eventually lose. With the amount of control that Serbia had a better team would have battered England. Wharton needs to start and maybe Gordon instead of Foden with Eze coming on as sub. Still Einstein was correct, repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result is madness, something all England managers appear to be afflicted with. Why don't they realise this is knock out football and just go for it. We will qualify and then it depends on who we meet but the minute it's a decent side we will be punished.
One more point |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I think we can guess how far down the pecking order our boys are. Foden needs to be dropped or used as a sub for Bellingham. TTA should be back up to Rice. As for the subs in fairness they did okay. Bowen and Gallagher made a nuisance of themselves which at least was something. I don't expect Southgate to learn any lessons from last night so it will be rinse and repeat until we eventually lose. With the amount of control that Serbia had a better team would have battered England. Wharton needs to start and maybe Gordon instead of Foden with Eze coming on as sub. Still Einstein was correct, repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result is madness, something all England managers appear to be afflicted with. Why don't they realise this is knock out football and just go for it. We will qualify and then it depends on who we meet but the minute it's a decent side we will be punished. This is my thinking as well. I have been in conversation with a plethora of people over the weeks, many whom were optimistic of England's chances of winning the tournament, but I was consistent in my messaging that England do not have a "Snowflake in Hades" chance of returning home with the trophy. Last night, we exercised control for the first half hour but thereafter we were distinctly disappointing and at the end of the match one never concluded that here was a team that had a good chance of winning the tournament. The only positives from last night, a victory and a "Clean sheet". Edited by Willo (17 Jun 2024 8.30am)
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Its so frustrating. The fact that anyone thinks we have a chance of winning this thing is absurd. Especially when you watch the likes of Germany, Italy and Spain, less talented squads, but significantly better drilled etc. This ridiculous experiment with Trent in CM is getting beyond a joke. I just don't see how the media aren't calling it out, and rolling out the same cliches like 'he'll grow into the tournament'. No he wont, he has an amazing cross/long ball on him. But he possesses very few of the qualities you need to succeed in CM. And you isn't going to learn that in a tournament. If he is to play, it needs to be at RB, or RWB against the poorer teams. (but we'd never play a different formation, because GS has never experimented with a different shape) I know I'm incredibly biased, but the answer in CM to partner Rice is Wharton. Gareth will never do it and the media wont support/suggest it, because of 'experience'. It seams in England, that we just assume that players cant make the step up. Even though though the boy has stepped up from the Championship with such ease. Its the same sh1t we had in the Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes era. No regard for how the team plays, and instead trying to shoehorn players in. I could rant all day
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Last night I saw a combination of tired players and a team without any tactical identity. That will get us nowhere. It's nice now as I have something to compare it to which all should understand - Oliver Glasner. A man with a distinct philosophy/way of playing who has transformed our football club. If anybody can articulate what Gareth's style/way of playing is I'd love to hear it? I strongly believe there is none. A team without a coherent game plan, relying on individual players who look a bit knackered after another gruelling season and the weight of a nation on their shoulders. My expectations are set low. Being a soft touch, 'feelings-based' friend of a group of players isn't football management IMHO.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
Last night I saw a combination of tired players and a team without any tactical identity. That will get us nowhere. It's nice now as I have something to compare it to which all should understand - Oliver Glasner. A man with a distinct philosophy/way of playing who has transformed our football club. If anybody can articulate what Gareth's style/way of playing is I'd love to hear it? I strongly believe there is none. A team without a coherent game plan, relying on individual players who look a bit knackered after another gruelling season and the weight of a nation on their shoulders. My expectations are set low. Being a soft touch, 'feelings-based' friend of a group of players isn't football management IMHO. What a Jaffa ! A grin of rapt adoration fell on my ageing face.
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Originally posted by Badger11
I think we can guess how far down the pecking order our boys are. Foden needs to be dropped or used as a sub for Bellingham. TTA should be back up to Rice. As for the subs in fairness they did okay. Bowen and Gallagher made a nuisance of themselves which at least was something. I don't expect Southgate to learn any lessons from last night so it will be rinse and repeat until we eventually lose. With the amount of control that Serbia had a better team would have battered England. Wharton needs to start and maybe Gordon instead of Foden with Eze coming on as sub. Still Einstein was correct, repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result is madness, something all England managers appear to be afflicted with. Why don't they realise this is knock out football and just go for it. We will qualify and then it depends on who we meet but the minute it's a decent side we will be punished. Agree with all of this, except for the bit in red TAA should not be in midfield - or backup for Rice, but backup for Walker. I actually thought that Gallagher was the right choice at that point (should have been earlier) as we were losing the battle in midfield and needed his energy and industry. DR and TAA are too attacking and don't 'get in to' the opposistion enough. After he came on, we didn't give them as much time, and generally we limited their effectiveness. Apart from that, the main criticism has to be against Foden. Shockingly bad - the worst I've seen him in an England Shirt. Constantly gave the ball away, always going backwards or sideways. Cesc Fabregas called it after the match, this is His time to show The world what he can do, and he's not doing it. Any of Gordon, Palmer or Eze would have done a better job last night. personally I think Eze won't do it on the left, and needs to be more central, so would rather not risking him damaging his rep! Gordon on left and Saka on right, for me gives the team a decent balance. need to start this Team vs Denmark - they looked dangerous vs slovenia. ----------- Pickford
"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one" |
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I don't think we will win it not on last night's showing anyway, unless Southgate bucks his ideas up, very predictable from Southgate as ever. I posted on here after the Iceland game and said that game was rubbish, last night didn't change my mind very much.
South London born and bred |
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The narrative has focussed on all the talented players in the squad. When I witnessed Pickford simply thwacking the ball long in the direction of Kane I concluded that the team were devoid of ideas. After the first half-hour it was a hard watch and once again England were disappointing and gave supporters no grounds for optimism. Edited by Willo (17 Jun 2024 9.49am)
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
Last night I saw a combination of tired players and a team without any tactical identity. That will get us nowhere. It's nice now as I have something to compare it to which all should understand - Oliver Glasner. A man with a distinct philosophy/way of playing who has transformed our football club. If anybody can articulate what Gareth's style/way of playing is I'd love to hear it? I strongly believe there is none. A team without a coherent game plan, relying on individual players who look a bit knackered after another gruelling season and the weight of a nation on their shoulders. My expectations are set low. Being a soft touch, 'feelings-based' friend of a group of players isn't football management IMHO. Yep there is nothing there. Just hope that one of the better players pulls out something good. And against lesser oppo, they normally do. Its been the same for his entire tenure. I really struggle to understand any of the media's appreciation of his work. We huff and puff against the average teams, and almost always lose to the top teams. '22 '20 '18 So in the 3 past tournaments the only win against a traditional big team was Germany in '20. So dare I say we'll win the group, will the next, and go out to France in the q final.
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I'd love to be wrong, but it looks like Southgate will guarantee another failure this time around. I told my son we would defend a 1-0 lead for the rest of the game, and we did. Our substitutions were laughable, and Arnold is no more a midfielder than he is a defender. He then takes off Arnold, who is actually a good passer, and puts on Gallagher who isn't, playing next to Rice who also can't pass. We then resort to hoof ball. My Chelsea supporting son was begging for him to put Eze, Wharton ,Palmer or Gordon on in place of Foden, who did nothing, Arnold and Saka. This tournament is going to be very dull, and short, if we play like this every game. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Jun 2024 10.06am)
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