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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I don’t agree at all - a couple of hours ago I gave you an example of a long modern campaign where civilians casualties were not in the same stratosphere. The Troubles dragged on for many years and as brutal as that was civilian deaths were a few thousand, from memory. I think using a war from 500 years ago as a barometer for modern human morality is unreliable - there are countless examples of things which were morally acceptable then which nearly everyone would now agree are wrong. That’s without mentioning the tremendous progress in military capability and international diplomatic agreements. I’m also just not comfortable with just resigning ourselves to the ongoing massacre of children as if it’s an inevitability - particularly when there are clear diplomatic and economic pressures which can be applied to achieve the opposite. I thought I generally agreed with your first point but remarked that there were differences.
hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing. |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
There is a huge difference between an ordinary follower of Islam, and someone radicalised to the point of committing acts of terror, obviously. In this context, the ideology of Hamas is obviously deeply anti-Semitic and violent, and as I said, the inevitable outcome of Israel’s current campaign is going to be another generation of Palestinians being radicalised. You actually think they weren’t anyway. Through the whole area they are not wanted. Ask why no country has offered them a new home. Even Muslim ones.
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Originally posted by cryrst
You actually think they weren’t anyway. Through the whole area they are not wanted. Ask why no country has offered them a new home. Even Muslim ones. If another Muslim nation takes them in, it strengthens Israel's hand. Having them there getting killed literally suits the countries opposed to Israel. Unfortunate for the people obviously.
Red and Blue Army! |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
There is a huge difference between an ordinary follower of Islam, and someone radicalised to the point of committing acts of terror, obviously. In this context, the ideology of Hamas is obviously deeply anti-Semitic and violent, and as I said, the inevitable outcome of Israel’s current campaign is going to be another generation of Palestinians being radicalised. Is there a big difference between “ordinary followers of Islam” and people who want the Jews to be wiped off of the face of planet earth, though? Because I think you’ll find they’ve been ethnically cleansed from pretty much every region in the Middle East (apart from Israel) where they once held tangible communities. Kind of like, you know, a “genocide” of sorts. Only one that nobody cares about.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You're back to telling me about Hamas for some reason. As stated, I do not support Hamas - my position is simply that I want the killing of civilians to end. To that end, I focus more attention towards the side now doing the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the killing of civilians. I also hold an elected military superpower who have signed the Geneva convention to a higher standard of conduct, than I do a terrorist organisation.
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Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You're back to telling me about Hamas for some reason. As stated, I do not support Hamas - my position is simply that I want the killing of civilians to end. To that end, I focus more attention towards the side now doing the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the killing of civilians. I also hold an elected military superpower who have signed the Geneva convention to a higher standard of conduct, than I do a terrorist organisation. To start with I will go on about Hamas as much as I like. As they are the aggressors in this conflict. Another reason for Hamas to surrender during a conflict and a hostage situation could be a negotiated agreement that ensures their safety and fair treatment. This could include guarantees of a fair trial, protection from retaliation, or concessions on certain demands. Additionally, a resolution that avoids further escalation or harm to hostages could be appealing to Hamas. Remember when you're dealing with terrorists you're basically dealing with spoiled little children. If they don't get what they want they retaliate angrily. They are always playing the victim. You keep saying you want the killing of civilians to end then how about that as a solution.
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Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER
You are quite literally describing collective punishment, which is a war crime.
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Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER
To start with I will go on about Hamas as much as I like. As they are the aggressors in this conflict. Another reason for Hamas to surrender during a conflict and a hostage situation could be a negotiated agreement that ensures their safety and fair treatment. This could include guarantees of a fair trial, protection from retaliation, or concessions on certain demands. Additionally, a resolution that avoids further escalation or harm to hostages could be appealing to Hamas. Remember when you're dealing with terrorists you're basically dealing with spoiled little children. If they don't get what they want they retaliate angrily. They are always playing the victim. You keep saying you want the killing of civilians to end then how about that as a solution. That the terrorists are unwilling to surrender does not give Israel the right to repeatedly and flagrantly breach international law, obviously.
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
Is there a big difference between “ordinary followers of Islam” and people who want the Jews to be wiped off of the face of planet earth, though? Because I think you’ll find they’ve been ethnically cleansed from pretty much every region in the Middle East (apart from Israel) where they once held tangible communities. Kind of like, you know, a “genocide” of sorts. Only one that nobody cares about. Yes, there is obviously a big difference. The overwhelming majority of Muslims and Jews, particularly in the western world, co-exist peacefully. I don’t really understand the second half of your post - are you suggesting that because Jews were persecuted in the region previously, Israel are entitled to do what they want this time round?
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
That the terrorists are unwilling to surrender does not give Israel the right to repeatedly and flagrantly breach international law, obviously. You are acting like a spoiled little brat. I keep giving you solutions but, you just ignore them and make silly statements like well if Hammas doesn't want to surrender then it doesn't justify all the civilians being killed. well, it doesn't. I know for a fact.if you were being harassed year after the year by some chavs in your area. Smashing your house windows. Harassing you everyday and finally taking one of your kids as a hostage. Believe me you would not be saying the things you are saying now.
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You are quite literally describing collective punishment, which is a war crime. Another silly comment. Everybody worries about Palestinian citizens but, nobody gives a f*** about the hostages Israel has faced a range of threats over the decades since its establishment in 1948. There was the Arab-Israeli Wars: Upon its creation, Israel faced immediate military threats from neighboring Arab countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq. These countries sought to overturn Israel's existence, leading to the 1948 War of Independence, 1956 Suez Crisis, 1967 Six-Day War, and 1973 Yom Kippur War. These conflicts involved large-scale military operations, including conventional warfare, aerial battles, and ground offensives. Israel won. But it didn't stop there. Palestinian Terrorism started: Israel has been subjected to persistent acts of terrorism carried out by different Palestinian groups, aiming to undermine the state's security and morale. Notable examples include the wave of airplane hijackings in the 1970s, such as the Dawson's Field hijackings; suicide bombings during the Second Intifada (2000-2005); and attacks by groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). And if that wasn't enough, what about Hezbollah: Israel has had ongoing confrontations with the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah. In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon to combat Palestinian groups, and this led to the creation and strengthening of Hezbollah. The group engaged in guerrilla warfare against Israeli forces in south Lebanon, including rocket attacks, kidnappings, and suicide bombings. The 2006 Lebanon War was a significant conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. Then there is the Iranian Threat: Israel perceives Iran's nuclear program as a significant threat to its security. Israeli governments have repeatedly voiced concerns over Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons and its support for militant proxies in the region. Israel has warned against the possibility of a nuclear-armed Iran, even conducting covert actions against Iran's nuclear infrastructure such as the Stuxnet cyberattack. Also ,Intermittent Border Conflicts: Along its borders, Israel has faced sporadic conflicts with various militant factions, such as Hamas in the Gaza Strip and militant groups in the Sinai Peninsula. These conflicts have involved rocket attacks, armed infiltrations, and occasional ground offensives, including operations such as Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009, Operation Pillar of Defense in 2012, and Operation Protective Edge in 2014. Internal Security Threats: Israel has also dealt with internal security threats, including radicalization and acts of violence by extremist groups like Jewish terrorists. Examples include the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 by a Jewish extremist and sporadic attacks on Palestinians by far-right Israeli settlers. So it would be nice for you to recognize the s*** the Israelis have to go through all their lives. It would be nice if the hostages were mentioned at least once on these sites. As for current situation with the Palestinian civilians all Hamas has to do is surrender
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