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Originally posted by Nicholas91
Yes, I agree with everything there. I love Hughes but still doubt him however equally make you right and thought he did very well yesterday. On the Olise and Eze thing that may well be all Roy's doing but even if so, I wouldn't regard it as managerial genius. It may equally just be reflective of the relationship between the two and their mutual footballing understanding however. Agree on Hughes - he's not perfect and probably not good enough against better sides, but he was very impactful yesterday I thought. Absolutely Eze/Olise's understanding is a massive factor in it, and to be clear, allowing your most creative winger space to deliver crosses and ensuring there are bodies in the box when he does, is a really low bar in terms of crediting a manager, but I thought I'd try and offer some balance!
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I think it's an enormous stretch, to the point of silliness really. A player of Eze's quality will score goals like that all through his career, under a whole range of managers - the common denominator is Eze's talent. Right. I mean, you almost never hear any talk of a manager giving a talented player confidence to express their ability....
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
If that's true then we should also conclude that professional footballers know how to defend, yet many on here blame somehow the manager for the goals we let in. Again, the players get the credit for the positives, the manager the blame for the negatives. Of course we looked a lot worse without Eze and Olise. To suggest it could be otherwise, or that not maintaining the same level of play without them is a fault of Roy's just doesn't make sense. Only the biggest clubs can make subs to key players without dropping off. Read your comments with interest - think we can see and deduce why you’ve aptly named yourself “the big toe punt”..!! This probably also explains why - you seem such an avid supporter of Roy, his negative tactics and blatant disregard of potential in favour of proven mediocrity. You mention taking off Eze and Olise - so Roy has a choice he has Ahamada and Franca sitting on the bench - in my view the natural replacements/does he do that no he brings on Schlupp and Ozoh - no problem with Ozoh, in fact did/always does well. But Schlupp - he looks a stone overweight and gave us absolutely nothing. So in those terms Roy has just destroyed our attacking capabilities - and just gone for defending the lead and inviting the bottom team in the league to attack us - on the basis that we can hold out for the win…!! OK last night it worked out but Roy has done this on so many occasions and it hasn’t worked..!! So my issue is - we have all this talent but Roy is stubbornly ignoring them - if he did give them more opportunities - I’m sure we and otters wouldn’t just be talking about Olise and Eze - they’d also be talking about Franca, Ahamada and Ozoh..!! Looks like we now have another bright young talent coming in, in Wharton - be interesting to see if Roy plays him or he gets the same treatment - ignored in favour of a very average, mediocre and simply poor Hughes..!! That’s my issue with Roy - in that a better Manager would be getting far more out of this squad than Roy is currently achieving. That’s why I’m personally blaming Roy for us underachieving his season on the basis of the potential he has at hand..!! COYP
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Ive been sitting here dwelling on last night this afternoon and realised that for us it was a great night. Understandably many of us on here have gone all neggie because of recent happenings or not happenings. We got three points. Im hearing that Olise and Eze are ok. And maybe, just maybe we are about to secure our second signing of the week who by all accounts is a real serious player. So my mood has had an upswing. Such is a day in the life of being a Palace fan. Never a dull moment. Long may goals like that keep coming, and you never know we might score from a corner before the season is up. Edited by dreamwaverider (31 Jan 2024 5.22pm)
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
Right. I mean, you almost never hear any talk of a manager giving a talented player confidence to express their ability.... You've become a complete mirror of what you were rallying against on this thread - desperate to credit the manager for everything and anything that happens. It doesn't make any more sense your way round.
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You've become a complete mirror of what you were rallying against on this thread - desperate to credit the manager for everything and anything that happens. It doesn't make any more sense your way round. Nonsense. It is standard, long established football 'wisdom', to the point of cliche, that one of a managers key attributes is the ability to nurture confidence in players. I am applying the exact same test to Roy as is applied to so very many others.
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Originally posted by Plaistow Eagle
Read your comments with interest - think we can see and deduce why you’ve aptly named yourself “the big toe punt”..!! This probably also explains why - you seem such an avid supporter of Roy, his negative tactics and blatant disregard of potential in favour of proven mediocrity. You mention taking off Eze and Olise - so Roy has a choice he has Ahamada and Franca sitting on the bench - in my view the natural replacements/does he do that no he brings on Schlupp and Ozoh - no problem with Ozoh, in fact did/always does well. But Schlupp - he looks a stone overweight and gave us absolutely nothing. So in those terms Roy has just destroyed our attacking capabilities - and just gone for defending the lead and inviting the bottom team in the league to attack us - on the basis that we can hold out for the win…!! OK last night it worked out but Roy has done this on so many occasions and it hasn’t worked..!! So my issue is - we have all this talent but Roy is stubbornly ignoring them - if he did give them more opportunities - I’m sure we and otters wouldn’t just be talking about Olise and Eze - they’d also be talking about Franca, Ahamada and Ozoh..!! Looks like we now have another bright young talent coming in, in Wharton - be interesting to see if Roy plays him or he gets the same treatment - ignored in favour of a very average, mediocre and simply poor Hughes..!! That’s my issue with Roy - in that a better Manager would be getting far more out of this squad than Roy is currently achieving. That’s why I’m personally blaming Roy for us underachieving his season on the basis of the potential he has at hand..!! COYP You've made this point before, that Roy holds back players with potential. He's given game time to Ozoh at 18 years of age, to Franca at 19, and Ahamada didn't manage to convince Vieira any more than he's convinced Hodgson. We are not sitting on some goldmine of top class talent.
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
Nonsense. It is standard, long established football 'wisdom', to the point of cliche, that one of a managers key attributes is the ability to nurture confidence in players. I am applying the exact same test to Roy as is applied to so very many others.
So is it Roy's fault every time a player misses a shot as well? For not nurturing enough confidence? JP had that one on his left last night that missed the target, I can't believe Roy did that to him. Disgraceful management.
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
So is it Roy's fault every time a player misses a shot as well? For not nurturing enough confidence? JP had that one on his left last night that missed the target, I can't believe Roy did that to him. Disgraceful management. Now who's being silly? For one thing you are mistaking a player failing in the attempt with him having the confidence to try it, but that's not really the point. The development of Eze and Olise over time under Hodgsons management is plain to see. To suggest the manager has no part to play in that is ridiculous.
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
Now who's being silly? For one thing you are mistaking a player failing in the attempt with him having the confidence to try it, but that's not really the point. The development of Eze and Olise over time under Hodgsons management is plain to see. To suggest the manager has no part to play in that is ridiculous. Ah, so Roy deserves praise for all shots, whether successful or not. Wonderful stuff. I have in no way suggested Roy hasn't contributed to Eze and Olise's overall development - don't move the goalposts now your original point is drowning.
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This thread has developed into a wider discussion around Roy, as opposed to the match v Sheffield United. Trying to be objective, I was happy that Roy returned this season. There are mitigating factors this season with injuries to key players and lack of depth in the squad. However, even with lesser resources it’s difficult to justify and accept the lack of basics in terms of organisation , structure, set piece preparation, alternative tactical approach and some bizarre player selections. I think the decision to bring back Roy has not really worked and I was incorrect in wanting him to manage us this season.
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
You've made this point before, that Roy holds back players with potential. He's given game time to Ozoh at 18 years of age, to Franca at 19, and Ahamada didn't manage to convince Vieira any more than he's convinced Hodgson. We are not sitting on some goldmine of top class talent. Totally disagree - they simply haven’t been afforded sufficient opportunities and are being overlooked in favour of seasoned proven mediocrity, negative tactics and poor Management..!! Consequently their development in terms of fulfilling their undoubted potential is being stunted and constrained..!! That’s why irrespective of last nights result Roy has got to go..!! COYP
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