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Originally posted by Mapletree
I can see you are as one-eyed as a cyclops fish. However, for balance, did you learn anything from the Shireen Abu Akleh debacle? It is a shame you don't get to see Channel 4 news in your neck of the woods, it had an excellent piece last night, including that it is very doubtful the claimed discussion between terrorists was genuine. The jury remains out. Edited by Mapletree (19 Oct 2023 1.33pm) Such a subtle, yet deep intellect you muster. The IDF were operating in that area, do you know why? You know little about the world and war. War is hell, innocents will die. That is war. But she was caught in an IDF operation in response to Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Jenin, which followed a series of terrorist attacks in Israel. You know what else happened to happen in Jenin: [Link] Condolences to you, it must've been hard to be raised by siblings for parents. Edited by Sheks Crows Eye (19 Oct 2023 1.43pm) Edited by Sheks Crows Eye (19 Oct 2023 1.44pm) Edited by Sheks Crows Eye (19 Oct 2023 1.44pm)
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Oh jfc, give it up - theres video of the rocket hitting the hosptial ding-dong! You don't have to go through life like this! Ash Sarkar isn't going to hop into bed with you.
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It's not the first time it's happened, but it's a relatively new - and interesting - way to wage war. Basically bomb your own side, swear blind that the enemy did it and wait for the bigoted and the gullible to fall in line. It reminds me of Ed Norton's character beating himself up in 'Fight Club'.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye
Maybe its just me but I don't think it reflects too well on Arab society if they threaten global jihad over the fact the evidence clearly shows their team bombed the hospital. Of course the gulf monarchs privately and quietly agree that Israel had to DO something, but the tribal low IQ masses that populate these societies want their pound of Jew flesh. The west should not kowtow to these insane people, nor should we have invited the third world to live and set up shop in Europe but what's done is done. Arabs don’t care about Palestinians. They’re the one group of refugees in the world who can’t be allowed to build better lives elsewhere but must stay where they are for a supposed greater political good, that political good being a pawn to be used against the Jews. “Solve the Palestinian problem to calm the Arab world” is sort of like “stop police racism to fix the problems of the American ghetto.” The problems are much deeper than that, and the suggestion completely misses the point. Obviously I'm a harsh critic of that part of the world and cultures that I view as incompatible (outside of secular versions) with the west....well in terms of cheek by jowl anyway. However, that doesn't mean I don't respect their right to practice their cultures within their own countries....I very much believe in 'when in Rome' as a matter of respect. However, I want to address this idea that Arabs don't care about the Palestinians because actually....while some element of that is fair it's also very harsh when seen in its totality. Look at what actually happened....Since before 48 the reality is that the Arab world has collectively taken millions of Palestinians as refugees from Palestine. They are still there now.....they couldn't go back. Those people need to be fed and affected poor economies significantly. This isn't 'not caring'. Also, the Arabs literally shed blood in three wars trying to take back a foreign land for the Palestinians. I don't really think it's fair to say to all those dead Arabs that they didn't care. Lastly I'd make the point that the Palestinians are largely a radicalised people.....Egypt, a country which has a significant population of Palestinians, does not appreciate the problems caused by having a population that agitates against relations with Israel..even more than its own Muslims....all this affects many other aspects....they take money from the US for example....tourism matters...stability matters, because that's linked to investment...at the moment they are being pulled in all directions and it causes them significant internal problems....maybe even being bounced into war. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Oct 2023 2.23pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by YT
It's not the first time it's happened, but it's a relatively new - and interesting - way to wage war. Basically bomb your own side, swear blind that the enemy did it and wait for the bigoted and the gullible to fall in line. It reminds me of Ed Norton's character beating himself up in 'Fight Club'. This is feasible. Albeit I suspect cock-up not conspiracy. The story that it was a rocket launched by Islamic Jihad and not Hamas may have some truth. Or may not. The idea that nobody got hurt etc. is just so laughable, all the mainstream media accept there was a major loss of life. It is awful that innocents get caught up in these things. The 'warriors' give little impression of caring on both sides. I don't think people should be allowed to blaspheme on this hallowed site.
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Originally posted by Mapletree
This is feasible. Albeit I suspect cock-up not conspiracy. The story that it was a rocket launched by Islamic Jihad and not Hamas may have some truth. Or may not. The idea that nobody got hurt etc. is just so laughable, all the mainstream media accept there was a major loss of life. It is awful that innocents get caught up in these things. The 'warriors' give little impression of caring on both sides. I don't think people should be allowed to blaspheme on this hallowed site. Are there any images of the damaged hospital building rather than burned out cars in a car park?
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Originally posted by YT
It's not the first time it's happened, but it's a relatively new - and interesting - way to wage war. Basically bomb your own side, swear blind that the enemy did it and wait for the bigoted and the gullible to fall in line. It reminds me of Ed Norton's character beating himself up in 'Fight Club'. Great analogy! I'd consider it reminiscent of a child causing themselves harm before running to a parent to land a sibling in trouble. If this is of course true, and I only say this as you can't be sure of anything these days, it demonstrates the extent to which individuals are willing to so nonchalantly dispose of human life to further a political or otherwise cause, even if the chance of success is minimal and the consequences as awful as you can imagine. Horrendous.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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Originally posted by YT
It's not the first time it's happened, but it's a relatively new - and interesting - way to wage war. Basically bomb your own side, swear blind that the enemy did it and wait for the bigoted and the gullible to fall in line. It reminds me of Ed Norton's character beating himself up in 'Fight Club'. I know....I don't think Ukraine need any help personally because apparently Russia bombed its own pipeline, bombed its own dam and attacked its own nuclear installation. Perhaps if we stay out of it the Russians will do the job themselves like the Judean People's Front, Suicide Squad from Life of Brian.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I know....I don't think Ukraine need any help personally because apparently Russia bombed its own pipeline, bombed its own dam and attacked its own nuclear installation. Perhaps if we stay out of it the Russians will do the job themselves like the Judean People's Front, Suicide Squad from Life of Brian. But what of The People's Front of Judea? It's important to remember that these groups represent two very different ideologies and that cohabitation or cooperation wasn't tangible in the long run. While they both strived for the total deconstruction of the imperialist Roman state and all its power structures, they vastly differed in their opinions on what the Romans really did for them. You could say that the PFJ was much more aware of the positive effects the Romans had on the Judean region. Don't be mistaken though, they truly hated the Romans. I mean, they didn't just hate them like everyone else, they hated them a lot. So despite their recognition of Roman improvements, they were still actively sabotaging the Roman government. That being said, the PFJ explicitly recognized Roman improvements in various areas. One prime example were the aquaducts and sanitation. Unlike most members of the JPF, the leader of the PFJ clearly remembered what the city used to be like before the Romans came into power, suffice it to say that he never wavered on this particular point. It didn't stop there though, the roads go without saying, but there were many more Roman improvements that were actively recognized as such by the PFJ. They were also very vocal and positive about the Roman wine, medicine, public health and irrigation. Most of all, they recognized the fact that the Roman military was probably one of the only known organizations capable of maintaining public order in a place like that. However, despite all of this, they still hated the Romans a lot and often raised the question as to what the Romans had ever done for them. In contrast, the JPF never even acknowledged these improvements and they were a lot more linear in their thinking. To them anything Roman was despicable. Both ideologies were very uncompromising and this ultimatly led to the split between both parties. You could say that the PFJ was a lot less radical in their ideology, even though their actions say otherwise.
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Originally posted by Mapletree
But what of The People's Front of Judea? It's important to remember that these groups represent two very different ideologies and that cohabitation or cooperation wasn't tangible in the long run. While they both strived for the total deconstruction of the imperialist Roman state and all its power structures, they vastly differed in their opinions on what the Romans really did for them. You could say that the PFJ was much more aware of the positive effects the Romans had on the Judean region. Don't be mistaken though, they truly hated the Romans. I mean, they didn't just hate them like everyone else, they hated them a lot. So despite their recognition of Roman improvements, they were still actively sabotaging the Roman government. That being said, the PFJ explicitly recognized Roman improvements in various areas. One prime example were the aquaducts and sanitation. Unlike most members of the JPF, the leader of the PFJ clearly remembered what the city used to be like before the Romans came into power, suffice it to say that he never wavered on this particular point. It didn't stop there though, the roads go without saying, but there were many more Roman improvements that were actively recognized as such by the PFJ. They were also very vocal and positive about the Roman wine, medicine, public health and irrigation. Most of all, they recognized the fact that the Roman military was probably one of the only known organizations capable of maintaining public order in a place like that. However, despite all of this, they still hated the Romans a lot and often raised the question as to what the Romans had ever done for them. In contrast, the JPF never even acknowledged these improvements and they were a lot more linear in their thinking. To them anything Roman was despicable. Both ideologies were very uncompromising and this ultimatly led to the split between both parties. You could say that the PFJ was a lot less radical in their ideology, even though their actions say otherwise. Splitter! Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Oct 2023 2.54pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Obviously I'm a harsh critic of that part of the world and cultures that I view as incompatible (outside of secular versions) with the west....well in terms of cheek by jowl anyway. However, that doesn't mean I don't respect their right to practice their cultures within their own countries....I very much believe in 'when in Rome' as a matter of respect. However, I want to address this idea that Arabs don't care about the Palestinians because actually....while some element of that is fair it's also very harsh when seen in its totality. Look at what actually happened....Since before 48 the reality is that the Arab world has collectively taken millions of Palestinians as refugees from Palestine. They are still there now.....they couldn't go back. Those people need to be feed and affected poor economies significantly. This isn't 'not caring'. Also, the Arabs literally shed blood in three wars trying to take back a foreign land for the Palestinians. I don't really think it's fair to say to all those dead Arabs that they didn't care. Lastly I'd make the point that the Palestinians are largely a radicalised people.....Egypt, a country which has a significant population of Palestinians, does not appreciate the problems caused by having a population that agitates against relations with Israel..even more than its own Muslims....all this affects many other aspects....they take money from the US for example....tourism matters...stability matters, because that's linked to investment...at the moment they are being pulled in all directions and it causes them significant internal problems. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Oct 2023 1.55pm) Strong points and I'll add that Hamas is a Muslim brotherhood offshoot, which recently Egypt's military overthrew in the past decade after their first "free and fair" elections, since then many members of the Muslim Brotherhood were sentenced to death. Totally agree on the radicalization comment as well, I recently read an old poll from 2013 which demonstrated this: [Link] I don’t have a stunning conclusion to offer other than “peace in the Middle East seems like a hard problem.” But even though that conclusion sounds banal, I do think it’s important. As it happens, Palestinian rights are defined in this discourse in a way that Israelis understand as being incompatible with the fundamental existence of their country. That makes the problem much thornier than if it were just a dispute about the exact borders of a Palestinian state. In the west, we frequently see a politics of pure position-taking around this. I'll repeat what I said in a previous post from yesterday: The recent attack by Hamas has shocked the current conflict out of the now default war of choice framework and made it clearly a war of necessity. I expect Israel to do whatever it takes to at the very least either dismantle Hamas or establish a buffer zone between itself and the people of Gaza. If it does not, the problem will fester, and the Israelis will find themselves in the exact same position a few years down the line. It would be nice to believe that the Palestinian conflict could be solved by the stronger side being more accommodating towards its enemy. But there is little in the history of warfare, and certainly nothing in the doctrine of Hamas, to suggest this is a viable path forward. The choice faced by Israel is a tragic one, no matter how much in denial those currently calling for restraint are about this fact.
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Originally posted by Mapletree
But what of The People's Front of Judea? It's important to remember that these groups represent two very different ideologies and that cohabitation or cooperation wasn't tangible in the long run. While they both strived for the total deconstruction of the imperialist Roman state and all its power structures, they vastly differed in their opinions on what the Romans really did for them. You could say that the PFJ was much more aware of the positive effects the Romans had on the Judean region. Don't be mistaken though, they truly hated the Romans. I mean, they didn't just hate them like everyone else, they hated them a lot. So despite their recognition of Roman improvements, they were still actively sabotaging the Roman government. That being said, the PFJ explicitly recognized Roman improvements in various areas. One prime example were the aquaducts and sanitation. Unlike most members of the JPF, the leader of the PFJ clearly remembered what the city used to be like before the Romans came into power, suffice it to say that he never wavered on this particular point. It didn't stop there though, the roads go without saying, but there were many more Roman improvements that were actively recognized as such by the PFJ. They were also very vocal and positive about the Roman wine, medicine, public health and irrigation. Most of all, they recognized the fact that the Roman military was probably one of the only known organizations capable of maintaining public order in a place like that. However, despite all of this, they still hated the Romans a lot and often raised the question as to what the Romans had ever done for them. In contrast, the JPF never even acknowledged these improvements and they were a lot more linear in their thinking. To them anything Roman was despicable. Both ideologies were very uncompromising and this ultimatly led to the split between both parties. You could say that the PFJ was a lot less radical in their ideology, even though their actions say otherwise. This was very interesting, thank you for sharing.
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