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I agree with both of you it should be in a museum. Again, this was attempted many times years ago but it was ignored or put at the bottom of the in-tray over and over again so I’m not particularly fussed. I agree it’s vandalism. But am I that bothered? No. It makes little difference on other statues because they’ve been vandalised since last week. It’s those in power that decide whether they aren’t defaced or torn down. Defend them properly and they won’t be.
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Slight difference is this statue is celebrating someone who hugely benefited from slavery. I’m just not that bothered by it. If it means that much to them for it not to be on public view then it’s a small price to pay I’d say. When you say where does it all end, I’d say when are the police going to get the batons out? That’s how you put a stop to things. Law enforcement. They haven’t gone in early to fall into a trap so now they can get equipped and stand for no more liberties being taken. I’ve heard quite a few people from Bristol speak. I haven’t heard anyone say it should remain there. Only people dotted around the country who’ve probably never seen or noticed it but stand by the principle that nothing historical ever gets moved. I heard about the moves to have it moved years ago and I thought it had been. Instead they were ignored. Loads of people think it should have been moved years ago, including conservatives. I’m far more concerned with police leaving statues of heroic figures of independence to be defaced than a statue a lot of people weren’t even aware of until yesterday. I’m all a bit meh about this one. It’s a small victory. The real issue is law and order where they’re half trying to enforce it. We differ on this. I have no care about a Bristol figure related to its past and I can understand why a percent will be against this statue. I am also against certain statues but I would never support mob rule in a democratic state.....Has state control broken down? In a democratic state, there are legal processes that are required and hence this is a criminal act and I'd restore this statue under armed guard if required. If enough people in Bristol want this statue removed they must do it legally. If the legal processes fail, well then the losers have to suck it up as that is the point of a democracy. If they succeed fine.....again, that's democracy.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Just a little side point here. I kind of agree that Colston should have been removed some time ago. However, the statue should be in a museum, university, council building or something - in a back room yet preserved. Not all history can be 'good' or ethically 'correct' for today's standards. Ripping things down and chucking them in a river is not a decent way to go about things, in my book. Absolutely agree. Should be in a museum.
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
We differ on this. I have no care about a Bristol figure related to its past and I can understand why a percent will be against this statue. I am also against certain statues but I would never support mob rule in a democratic state.....Has state control broken down? In a democratic state, there are legal processes that are required and hence this is a criminal act and I'd restore this statue under armed guard if required. If enough people in Bristol want this statue removed they must do it legally. If the legal processes fail, well then the losers have to suck it up as that is the point of a democracy. If they succeed fine.....again, that's democracy. This is where we go round in circles because the attempts at a democratic decision were ignored. I can imagine the reaction to riot police dealing with this statue removal yesterday. As I said, it’s a small victory they’re willing to let go because they probably also don’t feel it’s necessary he statue is there. Like you, I’m not that fussed about it and I reckon nobody will be in time either. It’s about more than this statue and this is my concern. When the young black people who are just like low income white people next have a reason to go on a rampage. Plenty have ability, glass ceilings, face subtle racist problems etc and that’s fine to deal with. The problem is when I hear about not having a father or an education.
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
This is where we go round in circles because the attempts at a democratic decision were ignored. I can imagine the reaction to riot police dealing with this statue removal yesterday. As I said, it’s a small victory they’re willing to let go because they probably also don’t feel it’s necessary he statue is there. Like you, I’m not that fussed about it and I reckon nobody will be in time either. It’s about more than this statue and this is my concern. When the young black people who are just like low income white people next have a reason to go on a rampage. Plenty have ability, glass ceilings, face subtle racist problems etc and that’s fine to deal with. The problem is when I hear about not having a father or an education. So when democracy doesn't deliver what you want you go out and destroy property? One needs to separate arguments about the suitability of statues and mindless vandalism.
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As previously posted this should be of more concern than a statue. Even if these figures are wrong by 50% they are still shocking.
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Slight difference is this statue is celebrating someone who hugely benefited from slavery. I’m just not that bothered by it. If it means that much to them for it not to be on public view then it’s a small price to pay I’d say. When you say where does it all end, I’d say when are the police going to get the batons out? That’s how you put a stop to things. Law enforcement. They haven’t gone in early to fall into a trap so now they can get equipped and stand for no more liberties being taken. I’ve heard quite a few people from Bristol speak. I haven’t heard anyone say it should remain there. Only people dotted around the country who’ve probably never seen or noticed it but stand by the principle that nothing historical ever gets moved. I heard about the moves to have it moved years ago and I thought it had been. Instead they were ignored. Loads of people think it should have been moved years ago, including conservatives. I’m far more concerned with police leaving statues of heroic figures of independence to be defaced than a statue a lot of people weren’t even aware of until yesterday. I’m all a bit meh about this one. It’s a small victory. The real issue is law and order where they’re half trying to enforce it. Personally I don't think the statue should have been erected in the first place,however they had a referendum (we love those don't we children),and 11000 people said it should be taken down,the population of Bristol is over half a million...what's that 2%.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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Originally posted by elgrande
Personally I don't think the statue should have been erected in the first place,however they had a referendum (we love those don't we children),and 11000 people said it should be taken down,the population of Bristol is over half a million...what's that 2%. There's that pesky democracy again. It's soooo unfair when they don't get their way.
One more point |
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How do you all feel about this history being destroyed?
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The news last night (BBC), they asked a girl about why she was protesting and all she could come up with is, “we can’t take this racism any longer and we are oppressed and it’s wrong” and “stop and search is wrong”. Really, is that the kind of thoughts running through people’s minds that makes them want to protest and riot. I would have thought there might be something a little more complex than this. I would say 90% of protestors have absolutely no idea what they want or how something can be done to improve things. Just shouting racism is bad is going to achieve f all and then rioting to enforce it is just going to make the majority of this country switch off to their plight. We like a minority or an underdog if you like in this country, someone or groups of people that beat the odds, we always have. What we don’t like is being told en mass that we are all fundamentally racist and that we must change. That attitude will never work. I look at the Indian, pakistani, Chinese, Bangladeshi and others who work so hard to make their place in British Society and I don’t see them rioting about racism or injustice. I wish the black people who feel they have been so hard done by tell us why they feel like this. Maybe then we can try to understand what the problem is.
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Tbf if you asked one of these kids you aren’t going to get a sensible or even sometimes coherent answer. If you listen on the radio you will get some fair and valid issues raised from black people. As I said, my concern is in the future when young black people similar to white low earners have another reason to riot.
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Brilliant. As usual, a completely different situation which bears no relation to the discussion. If people are going to keep using history to indoctrinate new generations with past grievances then perhaps it would be better if we buried it. It is being used by political groups to sow disharmony where very little actually exists.
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