Performance of the new government

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Performance of the new government

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georgenorman 26 Jul 24 9.10pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle and watch the economy collapse and public services to disintegrate to the point they don’t function at all? Great outcome! The economy is collapsing because of incompetent government overspending and missmanagement. Similarly, public services are disintegrating due to inefficiency and general incompetence.
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georgenorman

26 Jul 24 9.10pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

and watch the economy collapse and public services to disintegrate to the point they don’t function at all?

Great outcome!

The economy is collapsing because of incompetent government overspending and missmanagement. Similarly, public services are disintegrating due to inefficiency and general incompetence.

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The Dolphin 27 Jul 24 9.04am
Originally posted by cryrst Public service collapse because of bad financial choices within them alongside people expecting free s***. If I could see the doctor for £50 I would. I though can’t afford bupa doctors so that’s a no no. Many would gladly pay a low fee for it. Where are these million jobs in the public sector. Or what are the jobs. Like TFL loads of diversity this or hurty word that. How many are actually needed to make a practical difference ? Spot on. Other than medical frontline there is no need. Get public servants back to offices to do their jobs as opposed to being paid to shop or go to the pub. We want value for money and are not getting it. The public sector is bloated and costly and does not need feeding - it needs streamlining!
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The Dolphin

27 Jul 24 9.04am

Originally posted by cryrst

Public service collapse because of bad financial choices within them alongside people expecting free s***. If I could see the doctor for £50 I would. I though can’t afford bupa doctors so that’s a no no. Many would gladly pay a low fee for it. Where are these million jobs in the public sector. Or what are the jobs. Like TFL loads of diversity this or hurty word that. How many are actually needed to make a practical difference ?

Spot on.
Other than medical frontline there is no need.
Get public servants back to offices to do their jobs as opposed to being paid to shop or go to the pub.
We want value for money and are not getting it.
The public sector is bloated and costly and does not need feeding - it needs streamlining!

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orpingtoneagle Orpington 27 Jul 24 9.24am
Originally posted by The Dolphin Spot on. Other than medical frontline there is no need. Get public servants back to offices to do their jobs as opposed to being paid to shop or go to the pub. We want value for money and are not getting it. The public sector is bloated and costly and does not need feeding - it needs streamlining! Why is it ok for say someone who works in the private sector to work at home and not a civil servant? I am a civil servant and work from home 2 days a week. On office days I probably work an 8 hour day. At home more likely to be 9. I don't know anyone it any of the teams I work in who spends all day shopping or down the pub. There is zero evidence that home working is less productive and as the last government shut all the offices, if we all went in there would not be enough room for everyone to actually work. Just because certain political figures like to pedal the myth all civil servants are lazy sods does not make it true. Like any job there are good and bad. I took a day off last week to go to The Oval. It was full of folks out on corporate jollys getting bevvied in the sun. Probably on expenses. They were all probably 'at work.'
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orpingtoneagle

Orpington 27 Jul 24 9.24am

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Originally posted by The Dolphin

Why is it ok for say someone who works in the private sector to work at home and not a civil servant? I am a civil servant and work from home 2 days a week. On office days I probably work an 8 hour day. At home more likely to be 9. I don't know anyone it any of the teams I work in who spends all day shopping or down the pub.
There is zero evidence that home working is less productive and as the last government shut all the offices, if we all went in there would not be enough room for everyone to actually work.

Just because certain political figures like to pedal the myth all civil servants are lazy sods does not make it true. Like any job there are good and bad.

I took a day off last week to go to The Oval. It was full of folks out on corporate jollys getting bevvied in the sun. Probably on expenses. They were all probably 'at work.'

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cryrst The garden of England 27 Jul 24 10.33am
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle Why is it ok for say someone who works in the private sector to work at home and not a civil servant? I am a civil servant and work from home 2 days a week. On office days I probably work an 8 hour day. At home more likely to be 9. I don't know anyone it any of the teams I work in who spends all day shopping or down the pub. There is zero evidence that home working is less productive and as the last government shut all the offices, if we all went in there would not be enough room for everyone to actually work. Just because certain political figures like to pedal the myth all civil servants are lazy sods does not make it true. Like any job there are good and bad. I took a day off last week to go to The Oval. It was full of folks out on corporate jollys getting bevvied in the sun. Probably on expenses. They were all probably 'at work.' No one posted about being lazy or not being able to WFH. Although some roles can’t be done remotely. The point is that staff at the pointed end of public services are needed more than at at the blunt end but this seems to be where they are employed. As for the job you do, with respect you didn’t get forced to work for hmg and if all the folks at the oval were all ‘at work’ then maybe you need to change employers as their boss obviously looks after them and yours may not.
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 Jul 24 10.33am

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Just because certain political figures like to pedal the myth all civil servants are lazy sods does not make it true. Like any job there are good and bad.

I took a day off last week to go to The Oval. It was full of folks out on corporate jollys getting bevvied in the sun. Probably on expenses. They were all probably 'at work.'

No one posted about being lazy or not being able to WFH. Although some roles can’t be done remotely. The point is that staff at the pointed end of public services are needed more than at at the blunt end but this seems to be where they are employed. As for the job you do, with respect you didn’t get forced to work for hmg and if all the folks at the oval were all ‘at work’ then maybe you need to change employers as their boss obviously looks after them and yours may not.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Jul 24 11.29am
Originally posted by cryrst Public service collapse because of bad financial choices within them alongside people expecting free s***. If I could see the doctor for £50 I would. I though can’t afford bupa doctors so that’s a no no. Many would gladly pay a low fee for it. Where are these million jobs in the public sector. Or what are the jobs. Like TFL loads of diversity this or hurty word that. How many are actually needed to make a practical difference ? You are confusing separate issues. Ensuring medical provision is free at the point of use and available to all on the basis of need is a fundamental principle of the NHS. You could pay £100 to see a doctor but unless there is a doctor to see it’s not going to help. You need the infrastructure to recruit and train them, which will take decades to bear fruit even if you started tomorrow, or they need to come from oversees. Changing the funding model won’t change those facts. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Jul 24 11.29am

Originally posted by cryrst

You are confusing separate issues. Ensuring medical provision is free at the point of use and available to all on the basis of need is a fundamental principle of the NHS.

You could pay £100 to see a doctor but unless there is a doctor to see it’s not going to help. You need the infrastructure to recruit and train them, which will take decades to bear fruit even if you started tomorrow, or they need to come from oversees. Changing the funding model won’t change those facts.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Badger11 Beckenham 27 Jul 24 12.23pm
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle Why is it ok for say someone who works in the private sector to work at home and not a civil servant? I am a civil servant and work from home 2 days a week. On office days I probably work an 8 hour day. At home more likely to be 9. I don't know anyone it any of the teams I work in who spends all day shopping or down the pub. There is zero evidence that home working is less productive and as the last government shut all the offices, if we all went in there would not be enough room for everyone to actually work. Just because certain political figures like to pedal the myth all civil servants are lazy sods does not make it true. Like any job there are good and bad. I took a day off last week to go to The Oval. It was full of folks out on corporate jollys getting bevvied in the sun. Probably on expenses. They were all probably 'at work.' And yet most major corporations have now rowed back om WFH as productivity has suffered. The American bank I worked for has been quite vocal about it. As for the public service workers if you can do your job 30 miles from the office why can't it be done 3000 miles from the office. Careful for what you wish for. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 27 Jul 24 12.23pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Why is it ok for say someone who works in the private sector to work at home and not a civil servant? I am a civil servant and work from home 2 days a week. On office days I probably work an 8 hour day. At home more likely to be 9. I don't know anyone it any of the teams I work in who spends all day shopping or down the pub.
There is zero evidence that home working is less productive and as the last government shut all the offices, if we all went in there would not be enough room for everyone to actually work.

Just because certain political figures like to pedal the myth all civil servants are lazy sods does not make it true. Like any job there are good and bad.

I took a day off last week to go to The Oval. It was full of folks out on corporate jollys getting bevvied in the sun. Probably on expenses. They were all probably 'at work.'

And yet most major corporations have now rowed back om WFH as productivity has suffered. The American bank I worked for has been quite vocal about it.

As for the public service workers if you can do your job 30 miles from the office why can't it be done 3000 miles from the office.

Careful for what you wish for.

One more point

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orpingtoneagle Orpington 27 Jul 24 12.39pm
Originally posted by cryrst No one posted about being lazy or not being able to WFH. Although some roles can’t be done remotely. The point is that staff at the pointed end of public services are needed more than at at the blunt end but this seems to be where they are employed. As for the job you do, with respect you didn’t get forced to work for hmg and if all the folks at the oval were all ‘at work’ then maybe you need to change employers as their boss obviously looks after them and yours may not. Aside from your suggestion that public servants were shopping or down the pub when they should be working. I have been a civil servant for a very long time and very happy thanks. I have accepted - sometimes begrudgingly, lower pay and below inflation pay rises because I valued the flexibility and yes I will retire soon on a bloody good pension. It's horses for courses. Any organisation has to accept change but I struggle with the whole notion that WFH so long accepted in the private sector means id you work in the public sector you are in fact not really working.
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orpingtoneagle

Orpington 27 Jul 24 12.39pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Aside from your suggestion that public servants were shopping or down the pub when they should be working.

I have been a civil servant for a very long time and very happy thanks. I have accepted - sometimes begrudgingly, lower pay and below inflation pay rises because I valued the flexibility and yes I will retire soon on a bloody good pension.

It's horses for courses. Any organisation has to accept change but I struggle with the whole notion that WFH so long accepted in the private sector means id you work in the public sector you are in fact not really working.

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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 27 Jul 24 12.48pm
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle Aside from your suggestion that public servants were shopping or down the pub when they should be working. I have been a civil servant for a very long time and very happy thanks. I have accepted - sometimes begrudgingly, lower pay and below inflation pay rises because I valued the flexibility and yes I will retire soon on a bloody good pension. It's horses for courses. Any organisation has to accept change but I struggle with the whole notion that WFH so long accepted in the private sector means id you work in the public sector you are in fact not really working. I think the perception may be that if you work in the public sector then you are working for the benefit of the public. If you work in the private sector then you are working for profit. As such, if you employ a load of shirkers in the private sector, you won’t exist for long. In the public sector if you employ a load of shirkers you just employ more people to maintain the level of output. A bit harsh as a generalisation I agree, but that may be the perception. Working from home for people of a certain age will be dictated by their moral work ethic gained over many years; new arrivals into the workplace, I’m not so sure… hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.
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Behind Enemy Lines

Sussex 27 Jul 24 12.48pm

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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Aside from your suggestion that public servants were shopping or down the pub when they should be working.

I think the perception may be that if you work in the public sector then you are working for the benefit of the public. If you work in the private sector then you are working for profit. As such, if you employ a load of shirkers in the private sector, you won’t exist for long. In the public sector if you employ a load of shirkers you just employ more people to maintain the level of output. A bit harsh as a generalisation I agree, but that may be the perception. Working from home for people of a certain age will be dictated by their moral work ethic gained over many years; new arrivals into the workplace, I’m not so sure…

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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cryrst The garden of England 27 Jul 24 4.37pm
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle Aside from your suggestion that public servants were shopping or down the pub when they should be working. I have been a civil servant for a very long time and very happy thanks. I have accepted - sometimes begrudgingly, lower pay and below inflation pay rises because I valued the flexibility and yes I will retire soon on a bloody good pension. It's horses for courses. Any organisation has to accept change but I struggle with the whole notion that WFH so long accepted in the private sector means id you work in the public sector you are in fact not really working. I’m confused with your earlier point about wfh. Firstly you said it’s unfair that public sector can’t WFH and then you took your job because it was flexible ? Cake and eat it come to mind! I doubt your pension extras in a total would ever be less than the difference in pay rises or salary. In ten years you will equal the difference and after that it’s all great bunce. Edited by cryrst (27 Jul 2024 4.39pm)
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 Jul 24 4.37pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Aside from your suggestion that public servants were shopping or down the pub when they should be working.

I’m confused with your earlier point about wfh. Firstly you said it’s unfair that public sector can’t WFH and then you took your job because it was flexible ?
Cake and eat it come to mind!
I doubt your pension extras in a total would ever be less than the difference in pay rises or salary. In ten years you will equal the difference and after that it’s all great bunce.

Edited by cryrst (27 Jul 2024 4.39pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 24 9.23pm
The whole working from home argument is nuts. There can be no going back to the old ways. The transport system was on the verge of collapse before COVID. Now the railways, tubes and roads are back to an acceptable level but getting busier again. Companies have adopted hot desk systems that save space and reduce the need for more office space. That reduces cost. Wages increases can be lower because of the money people save on travel expenses. That is money that can be spent on goods and services. Many people now have a better work life balance because they don't have to make pointless journeys and are around for domestic matters. It is a win for everyone. Productivity will come back up once people adjust to the new reality. Perhaps we have to accept a little less productivity in return for all the advantages.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Jul 24 9.23pm

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The whole working from home argument is nuts.

There can be no going back to the old ways.

The transport system was on the verge of collapse before COVID. Now the railways, tubes and roads are back to an acceptable level but getting busier again.
Companies have adopted hot desk systems that save space and reduce the need for more office space. That reduces cost.
Wages increases can be lower because of the money people save on travel expenses. That is money that can be spent on goods and services.
Many people now have a better work life balance because they don't have to make pointless journeys and are around for domestic matters.
It is a win for everyone. Productivity will come back up once people adjust to the new reality.
Perhaps we have to accept a little less productivity in return for all the advantages.

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orpingtoneagle Orpington 27 Jul 24 10.15pm
Originally posted by cryrst I’m confused with your earlier point about wfh. Firstly you said it’s unfair that public sector can’t WFH and then you took your job because it was flexible ? Cake and eat it come to mind! I doubt your pension extras in a total would ever be less than the difference in pay rises or salary. In ten years you will equal the difference and after that it’s all great bunce. Edited by cryrst (27 Jul 2024 4.39pm) By flexibility I am referring back to the "old days,' where if I needed to start late to take the kids to school or leave early to pick them up it was not an issue. I totally accept that was then. In those days yes the civil service was full of those who played the system. Those days are long gone. Pensions? Yep fair point but as I said I am in the twilight of my career and for a long time paid nothing for a very good pension. Also by nature maybe I am risk averse and had job security and that meant something. These days I would probably seek a different career path.
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orpingtoneagle

Orpington 27 Jul 24 10.15pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Edited by cryrst (27 Jul 2024 4.39pm)

By flexibility I am referring back to the "old days,' where if I needed to start late to take the kids to school or leave early to pick them up it was not an issue.

I totally accept that was then. In those days yes the civil service was full of those who played the system. Those days are long gone.

Pensions? Yep fair point but as I said I am in the twilight of my career and for a long time paid nothing for a very good pension.

Also by nature maybe I am risk averse and had job security and that meant something. These days I would probably seek a different career path.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Jul 24 10.20pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The whole working from home argument is nuts. There can be no going back to the old ways. The transport system was on the verge of collapse before COVID. Now the railways, tubes and roads are back to an acceptable level but getting busier again. Companies have adopted hot desk systems that save space and reduce the need for more office space. That reduces cost. Wages increases can be lower because of the money people save on travel expenses. That is money that can be spent on goods and services. Many people now have a better work life balance because they don't have to make pointless journeys and are around for domestic matters. It is a win for everyone. Productivity will come back up once people adjust to the new reality. Perhaps we have to accept a little less productivity in return for all the advantages. It’s nice to read a post from you that I 100% agree with. I started working from home at least 25 years ago, when the company that employed me started their own online system. I only went to my office when face to face meetings were necessary. The internet has since changed everything. My wife is now considering doing some of her admin at home, where she can be undisturbed and more efficient. I am not sure productivity decreases at all. So long as people are responsible and committed it can increase. Of course not every job can be done this way, but enough can to be an important consideration in planning future infrastructure needs. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Jul 24 10.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The whole working from home argument is nuts.

There can be no going back to the old ways.

It’s nice to read a post from you that I 100% agree with.

I started working from home at least 25 years ago, when the company that employed me started their own online system. I only went to my office when face to face meetings were necessary. The internet has since changed everything.

My wife is now considering doing some of her admin at home, where she can be undisturbed and more efficient.

I am not sure productivity decreases at all. So long as people are responsible and committed it can increase.

Of course not every job can be done this way, but enough can to be an important consideration in planning future infrastructure needs.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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